Fighting: Bare Knuckles & Head kicks?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Dinosaur, Feb 9, 2015.

  1. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Many action movies & TV shows include fierce bare knuckle fights.
    Many others include kicks to the head of an opponent.

    The above two types of fighting do not seem plausible to me.

    Head kicks are telegraphed early enough to be dealt with effectively (See remarks below).

    Hitting the face any where except for the nose is likely to do damage more damage to the fist than to the face.

    In my teens, I got into more than an average number of fights because I seemed nerdy which tends to attract bullies.

    BTW: My martial arts instructor mentioned that the fist can be made into an effective weapon, but would seldom (if ever) be done to the right hand. He said that making the fist into a worthwhile weapon would make it significantly less useful for other purposes.

    My instructor mentioned that if you can get in close, the heel of the hand can be used very effectively. As an experiment, make a hard blow to the edge of a heavy table or a post with the heel & think about what would happen if you used your fist for that hard a blow.

    He recommended taking a stance with hands open palms facing your opponent. It makes you look afraid & might encourage carelessness.

    He also recommended taking a blow aimed at the face on the forehead by ducking slightly. I never tried this, but he claimed that your opponent would not use that fist for the rest of the fight.

    He also said that win, lose, or draw you are going to get hurt unless your opponent is an ineffective a**hole. Avoid a fight if possible. He mentioned an intersting strategy when challenged to a street fight: Run. If your opponent chases, drop to your hands & knees when (if) he gets close. I once used this idea & it was amazingly effective. My assailant ended up unconscious on the side walk.

    I took martial arts training in 1939 to 1942. My instructor was probably one of (if not) the best in the USA at that time. Oddly enough he was Norweigian. His family was poor, resulting in his taking a job as a cabin boy on a freighter when he was circa 10 years old. When he had shore leave in Japan, he got lost & was left there. The owner of a dojo took pity on him. He was in Japan at the dojo for 15 or more years.

    BTW: I was a very effective grappler, winning a college conference championship & a few AAU events. At martial arts I was only better than mediocre. The training I received made me an effective collegiate grappler.

    Circa 1880-1910, bare knuckle boxing matches were a common sport. Accounts of those fights described a lot of body blows & few hard blows to the face. Blows to the face tended to be reserved for when an opponent was exhausted.

    It is interesting to note that "punch-drunk" fighters were rare in the bare knuckle era.

    The 6-8 ounce gloves used in more modern times in addition to wrapping of the hands (in gauze?) protected the hands & allowed for more blows to the face.

    If an opponent tried to kick me in the head, I would own him. Such a kick is telegraphed soon enough to be dealt with, primarily by dropping to the knees & grabbing the other foot. This assumes that a blow to the testicles is verbotten, which would be the preferred response to the attempted head kick (further assuming no hard protective jock strap).
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  3. Jason.Marshall Banned Banned

    It's true head kicks are risky they mostly work on defenseless unsuspecting opponents but if you can get one of its preety interesting.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
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  5. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Kicks aren't always telegraphed. Not if you do it properly.
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  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    I've always preferred palm strikes... a good palm-strike straight in on the nose will crush it. Most bullies/would be thieves simply won't have the fucks to give to keep fighting whilst dealing with the pain of a broken nose.

    Last time I got into a real fight though was my sophomore year of high school. One of the trio of kids that used to bully me (for the longest time I wouldn't fight back at all) followed me off the bus at my bus stop. Came up behind me and punched me in the back of the neck. I turned around and he popped me in the face... and I blacked out.

    Came to a few moments later and I had him up against a house by the throat, my fingers digging into his trachea... he was probably a good two foot off the ground. First words I can recall saying are "Do you know how easy it is to crush a human windpipe?"

    I kind of freaked out, dropped him to the ground, grabbed my stuff and ran home. I was terrified because, in that moment, the idea of crushing his trachea actually sounded like a good idea to me.

    Since then I've worked hard to keep a strong sense of logic about myself and to never let my anger get the better of me.
  8. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    My instructors always told me that my height made kicks above my opponent's knees a risky move, telegraphed or not. If someone kicked high at me, (rules be damned, it's a fight), either step in and trap his planted foot for a tree-felling, or drop and punch him in the crotch as hard as you can.

    I've been in one fight since I learned how to fight....
  9. zgmc Registered Senior Member

    I have never been in an actual fight, but I was involved in martial arts for a number of years. I did have someone attempt to punch me in the face once, and this:
    Is quite effective. I didn't "duck", but simply moved my head as if looking at the ground. That way the blow was absorbed by the top of my head, and not my face. The guy wasn't interested in continuing after that. I know a broken hand hurts way worse than a bruised head.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    I have seen a kick to the head delivered from and to a standing position in a professional fight against a skilled, ready, and alert opponent - it was the first throw in a knockout combination.

    It was very quick. Some guys are just that fast.

    As far as bare knuckle fist punching - again, depends on the guy. Some people can hit you hard in the face with their fist without breaking their knuckles. These guys can punch through hollow core doors, stuff like that. These guys are rare, and they have to be accurate as well as rock-handed - hit somebody's head the wrong way, you will break your wrist as well as your hand.

    There have been circus geeks who let people hit them in the jaw for a price - knock them out, and you win the jar full of money from earlier tries. They seldom paid, and broke many hands.

    The movie stuff is nonsense - unless the next scene is the punching hand in a cast.
  11. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Sorry, but if you can't punch through a hollow-core door, even without training, you don't need to be fighting.
    zgmc likes this.
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Few people can reliably punch through a hollow core door without injuring their hands, which I omitted as the central consideration. The reason is that they probably won't hit square on the big knuckles with a tight enough fist and a straight wrist - punching something is a skill, easily underestimated by those who have acquired it and those who have not alike.

    And you are absolutely correct, most people don't need to be fighting. Just yesterday I walked through a free-for-all fight involving three young men and two young women trying to injure each other in the aisles of a convenience store - they had advanced to the ant-ball stage, rolling around on the floor in the debris of the racks they had knocked over - and saw one of the men try to punch one of the women in the face, miss, and hit the floor. That was a new one - I'd seen people miss and hit their friend who was holding their foe from behind, I'd seen them hit someone's head off center and collapse in pain while cradling their punching hand, I'd seen one guy try to uppercut his foe and hit himself in the nose, but I'd never seen someone punch the floor by mistake. Shit happens, in fights. Stay out of them, is my advice.
  13. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    You people sure do go to some very bad areas or businesses. I've never seen anyone hit another while out and about. I've seen school kids get into fights but never outside of school unless the school fight was moved out of the school grounds. I try to stay away from bars or areas that tend to have allot of problems in them so that I can avoid any fights that might happen.

    I've always been like that, finding places that do not have frequent fights or other types of criminal behavior. Knowing where not to go is just as important as knowing where to go. Remember there's always someone faster than you are so avoid confrontations if at all possible.
  14. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    The first rule for winning a fight is not to fight. If you need to go to places that are dangerous, the second rule comes in.

    Some of y'all know it already, but let's hear about it, shall we?
    Bells likes this.
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member


    In recent times in Sydney, we have seen a couple of young lads killed by one punch, thrown by an alcoholic induced ratbag for no reason. [footpaths are rather hard and can do a lot of damage.
    This has created somewhat of an uproar, so much so that laws have now been changed re admittance times to bars, closing times, and the following new laws...
    • New sentences for ‘one punch’ assaults
      A 20 year maximum sentence for anyone who unlawfully assaults another who dies as a direct or indirect result of the assault. If the offender was intoxicated by alcohol or drugs, a minimum of eight years and a maximum 25 year sentence applies.
    • Existing maximum sentences increased by two years
      For serious assaults where drugs and alcohol are involved, existing maximum sentences will increase by two years, and mandatory minimum sentences have been introduced.
    • Voluntary intoxication removed as a mitigating factor in sentencing
      Voluntary intoxication by drugs or alcohol will be removed as a mitigating factor when courts determine sentences.
    • Drug and alcohol testing for suspected offenders
      Police can conduct drug and alcohol testing when they suspect an offender has committed an alcohol or drug fuelled violent assault.
  16. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

    ...leave no witnesses...
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member


    When I was about 10 years old, there was this craze...collecting a Coca-Cola badge after buying so many bottles of coke.
    Finally after most of the other boys had one, I obtained one. First day wore it to school, and after school the "school bully" followed me in the school grounds, ripped off my badge and hurled it on the Confessional/church roof.
    I was livid! And only having my Globite suitcase in hand, took an almighty swing and hit him on the side of the head, grazing the side of his face.
    The Principal rushed out, grabbed us both by the ears, and took us into the class room.
    Pulled me aside and asked me what happened. I told him exactly what happened...He frowned at me, patted me on the head, and told me to get home.
    The other bugger then copped four of the best off the Principal, [he had a long record for similar stuff] and went home with two red hands and a grazed face.

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  18. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

    SpiderGoat: From your Post #3
    I suppose you refer to kicking when your opponent’s back is toward you. Perhaps having a blind folded (or blind)opponent would result in the kick not being telegraphed.
  19. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

    Most of the fights I have been resulted in me umercifully pounding my opponents fists with my face.
  20. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    If one were to count the number of strikes to the head in a pro fight I think it would break down something like this.

    Most punches come from the side, aimed at the temple or jaw. A fewer number come from the front, aimed at the jaw or nose. The fewest come from below (uppercut) aimed at the jaw.

    Also, lots of pro fights have been ended by kicks to the head. Theres a high level of reward for the risk involved...because legs are so much more powerful than arms.
  21. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    I had a bare knuckle fight when i was about 13.!!!

    It was at a summer camp... an ther was this one boy who was at least a foot taller than most of the other guys ther... an he tended to grab people an ruff 'em up a bit... an i had been successful at avoidin him until the last day of camp... we was all makin a pit-stop at the bathroom befor our long bus ride home... an as i was washin my hands... all the sudden ther was this terrible poundin on the back of my head drivin my face toward the sink... i managed to turn around to see what was goin on an i discovered it was the hulk usin my head as a drum... his poundin woudnt allow me to look up but i started hittin him in the gut wit little effect... but after i shot a fist strate up the poundin stoped an i ran out of the bathroom... i looked back an he wasnt follerin me... but a crowd was gatherin around the bathroom so i carefuly went back for a closer look... an aparently my fist had caut him in the chin... an as it turned out... his bad habit of stickin his tongue out while abusin the smaller boys was his downfall... an from the amount of blood he was spittin out... i dout that he enjoyed his meal very much when the busses we was on stoped for dinner on the way home.!!!
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Good work!
    One method of teaching bullies a lesson, is to inflict the pain on them that they inflict on their victims.
  23. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Wit the head poundin ther wasnt much rational thout goin on... i was runnin on instinct... tryin to make it stop/get away... but at the very least he prolly learned not to stick his tongue out when ruffin people up.???

    I went to that camp 4 years in a row... it was fantastic... swimmin twice a day... archery... row boat... fishin... nature hikes... if you'r cabin was the cleanest you got first in line for the perty basic but delishous tastin meals such as... syrup... cold bacon an scrambled egges... rubber toast... an a canteen was open after dark whare if you had the money you coud buy snacks... the counselors was frindly/fun... volley ball... horse shoes... an the best... bad menton... whare one on one i never lost a game

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    It was only a week long... but it sure was worth the 12 dollars.!!!

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