Fate!!!

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by anthariksh, Jan 3, 2002.

  1. anthariksh Registered Member

    Messages:
    5
    Hi all..
    Just wanted to know your views on Fate...destiny..
    do you think that..each one is here for a purpose..
    life and the world as we know it.. is it just an illusion..

    i read someone say..that the truth shall set you free...

    what is the truth?



    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Bebelina Feminazi Messiah Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,997
    Free will+ heart= destiny

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,188
    Hi anthariksh,

    Welcome to sciforums.

    Fate implies that whatever actions you take in life you will always reach a pre-determined ending. In this respect free-will and fate are mutually exclusive.

    Fate also implies that determinism is in force. The philosophy of determinism says that for every effect there is a cause. So even your action of writing your post could be traced back by millions of years of causes and their effects. We can continue to go back to the beginning of time.

    If there were a creator who had specific plans for everyone and who geared up the universe so that those plans would be achieved, then again human free will would have no meaning. That would be the meaning of fate – we would just be puppets.

    But determinism and or a creator imply a beginning. But if the universe is infinite, i.e. has no boundaries, no beginning and no end; then there would be no starting point for a deterministic trace. Infinity also implies that everything is possible, or rather that there are an infinite number of possibilities within valid realities. Such a scenario opens up the possibilities that human free will is real and that our destiny is what we choose it to be, i.e. there is no fate.

    So my understanding of current cosmology is that an infinite universe is looking increasingly likely. In which case, in the absence of any other credible theories, I would lean towards an infinite universe where fate does not exist and where human free will can lead us wherever we wish.

    As for truth settings us free: It is an imprecise statement since it doesn’t state what truth is being measured, or from what we are being freed. So it is difficult to know how to respond. I believe that the more you know then the greater your freedom to make valid choices. Without knowledge you are condemned to irrationality and guesswork.

    So bebelina how do make your equation work? If we assume that destiny is not pre-determined and that your destiny is what you choose it to be then I agree with your equation although I’d state it slightly differently –

    Free will + passion + knowledge = destiny.

    Our emotions play a large part in helping us set our goals and desires. Being free of outside influences in the form of free will gives us freedom to choose whatever we want, and knowledge helps us achieve those goals in whatever reality we find ourselves.

    But if destiny implies fate then your equation cannot work since free will would be absent.

    Cris
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. anthariksh Registered Member

    Messages:
    5
    Hi thanks for your opinions on fate..

    just pondered on a couple of more questions..
    Free will..is it actually free will..since i think that the very essence of will is decision. And decision is related to a lot of factors. So eventhough one assumes free will to be free...is it?
    i dont know whether that makes too much sense..

    this surely does'nt..

    Say..the destiny..i.e.the future depends on the present...then 'time travel' can never exist.??

    Thanks again..
     
  8. strawberryfyre Registered Member

    Messages:
    4
    my thoughts

    i am a believer in fate

    but only to an extent.

    i think that you need to make the right choices and get set on the right path by yourself. and then fate will take you the rest of the way.

    its too scary of a thought to have a greater power controlling your life. because then that does bring up the issue of free will.

    so i made that compromise. use what you have to get yourself to the point where fate will take you by the hand and assist you to destiny.
     
  9. glaucon tending tangentially Moderator

    Messages:
    5,502
    Fate = a post hoc belief so one aschews responsibility for one's actions.

    Personally, I create my own fate, one decision at a time...
     
  10. Bebelina Feminazi Messiah Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,997
    Hmm, interesting. So you see fate as an ad hoc- theory? Amusing thought though...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



     
  11. esp Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    908
    I believe that there are as many fates and destinies as there are decisions in a lifetime.
    We do have free will, but once we make a single decision, we have moved off down a bifurcation on the path leading to the fates.
    A failure to act after this point allows us to blunder through to one particular fate, but taking action will change your fate.
    I hope this makes some sense!
     
  12. botchi Registered Member

    Messages:
    14
    you wouldn.t be here if ther wasn.t a fate
     
  13. glaucon tending tangentially Moderator

    Messages:
    5,502
    No, I did not say 'ad hoc', I said post hoc. After something goes usually unfavourably from the point of view of the believer, the idea of fate is invoked to take responsibility. If however, all goes well, it's usually the case that the believer takes responsibility. Funny how people are, isn't it?

    Ahhh 'fate', escapism at it's weakest..
     
  14. G0D G0D - Gee Zero Dee Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    150
    I do not subscribe to the "stronger" version of fate. Cris has provided an excellent definition of strong fate -

    "Fate implies that whatever actions you take in life you will always reach a pre-determined ending. In this respect free-will and fate are mutually exclusive. "

    IMO, the "weaker" form of fate exists. I cannot give a proper definition of weak fate, instead, I'd list words such as predispositions, fortune, "luck", "good genetics", etc. as examples of what I'm talking about.
     
  15. G0D G0D - Gee Zero Dee Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    150
    To expand on that -

    Do you know of ayone who seems to have an uncommon facility for something? A "natural". Isn't a statement that someone is a "natural athlete" in essense, an acknowledgement similar to "fate has favored him/her"?

    Or do you know of someone who experiences a higher than average winning rate at games of chance. Could it be some sort of "fate" which gives that person an edge?
     
  16. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,101
    There is such thing a fate, although there are people that have been studying how to "change" their fate.

    In a discussion we had previously on such a subject, I mentioned that i you could choose turning left instead of turning right (Your default choice) you could change your FATE LINE, but in reality when you get to a junction and choose a route, no matter how many times you try to randomly pick a path it will always be the path you wre destined to choose.

    I suppose you could say it's like rolling CRAPS permanently.
     
  17. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    Cris,

    Shouldn't your equation should have one more element

    Chance+Free will + passion + knowledge = destiny.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  18. Hoth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    383
    I'd have to say free will is a matter of perspective, which kind of puts me in the undecided category until I determine the full implications of perspective. Let me just present this, however:

    If the moon, in the act of completing its eternal way around the earth, were gifted with self-consciousness, it would feel thoroughly convinced that it was travelling its way of its own accord on the strength of a resolution taken once and for all.

    So would a Being, endowed with higher insight and more perfect intelligence, watching man and his doing, smile about man's illusion that he was acting according to his own free will.

    - Albert Einstein
     
  19. Tom Guest

    nope

    Fate is nothing but a myth...

    say that there is fate, then we will be able to see into the future because there is one, and so we will be able to change it because we know whats going to happen, and so it never was true because it was changed, interesting paradox... ey.
     
  20. Ender Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    294
    Redundency?

    Concider This

    This Thread sounds very similar to the one on "Hitler was a professed Christian"

    Anyway:

    The idea that we have either free will or fate is a matter of perspecitive.

    <HR>
    Free Will...
    <HR>
    It is one of two things, one it is an allision that has been pulled over our eyes, and thus we think we have free will, but really our free will is a direct effect of other causes. At the most basic level, everything we do is a cause of something else, and something that will effect other people's, (or our own) future. Either way, we are doing someting just because someone pulled a trigger and started a chain reaction of cause and effect.

    or free will (as mentioned in another post) is real (meaning in existance) and everyting we do is baised soly on our own decisions with no input from other things. This is clearly not the case. ie. Would I be writing this on another post for no good reason? Of couce not, I would only write this where it would make sence (here on this Thread) but i didin't begin this post, so clearly I had help form the makers of this Tread, without them I wouldn't be writing this. This demonstrates the evidence of the first defination of free will.

    Fate...
    <HR>
    If there is such a thing as fate, then there would be no free will. Fate would be, as described by Cris, "...whatever actions you take in life you will always reach a pre-determined ending..."

    Or we can say that Fate itself doesn't exist. Hence proving the idea of free will. Which as mentioned eariler can't exist, therefore fate must exist.

    <HR>
    in conclusion

    If we have free will, we have no fate.

    ~~~ or ~~~

    If we don't have free will, we have fate.

    It comes down to those two options.
     
  21. Bohemian Nightmare I am better than you Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    85
    i do believe in fate. i do i do. i believe everything happens for a reason.
     
  22. Bohemian Nightmare I am better than you Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    85
    Re: Redundency?

    how about, we do have free will (obviously we do) but we dont have fate.
    ?
     
  23. Ender Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    294
    SORRY

    Concider This

    Sorry that's what I ment to say in the last thing, I have edited that. Thankyou for pointing out my fatel flaw.
     

Share This Page