the fight against the jihadis is on many fronts. 1) money prizes, 2) intelligence work, 3) police work (trying to arrest), 4) army work (trying to kill), 5) propaganda (trying to fight their propaganda with counter-propaganda), and 6) secret... some stuff we don't know about None of which work, because all its doing is attacking the effects not the cause. The cause of the insrugency is probably anti-Americanism and as a result it will never stop until the US leaves. Israel attacks Hamas leaders, but they are only making the situation worse, you have to tackle the causes of war not the effects. Simply attacking them is not going to do jack. This is a new war...get used to it. just because they might move somewhere doesn't mean there should be no action against them at all. i'm sure that the planners knew that once the media got a hold of the report they (terrorists) will flee. i'm sure that they took that into consideration and set up traps at the exits of the cities before the media started advertising everything. there are many surprizes we don't know about. I highly doubt that, I think many got out successfully and mixed in with the local population. That's the way it works, you cannot stop every car, and you cannot hope to stop every insurgent. Look at Samarra, the US supposedly "liberated" the city yet you still have bombings. Sorry but old tactics don't work in new wars. i think it's funny to say "well they'll escape so there isn't any point in chasing after them" Who said that? What I am saying is "kill as many as you can, it only makes the situation worse. The real war is psychological not physical". but it isn't a popular insurgency. it's a minority of extremists (i'm aware that for the jaded among us it's become a meaningless slogan, but it's not meaningless at all imo) holding the population hostage, terrorizing the whole country. 9/10 consider the US as illegitimate, and an occupation force. I'd say that is a resounding support for anti-Amerian forces.
9/10 consider the US as illegitimate it's a typical case of a foreign power being on a foreign land. they are first welcomed as liberators, then after a while the people get agitated and eventually they get pissed and angry and tell the foreign power to get the hell out. while these imaginary numbers which you're taking from who knows where (90% of pop'n) may like to be sovereign, that doesn't mean that 90% of the population oppose the elections, kidnap people and cut their heads off. there are 3000-5000 fighters, most of which are foreigners answering the call of global Jihad. i.e. these people aren't even Iraqis. you've got Iranians, Saudis, Jordanians (aka the real Palestinians), Afghanis, Chechens, North-Africans, Syrians... and they're being labelled as the "Iraqi insurgency" there are Iraqis in there, but they're not a voice of the mainstream, they are not popular and they are not freedom fighters. more like fighters-of-Allah.
while these imaginary numbers which you're taking from who knows where (90% of pop'n) may like to be sovereign, that doesn't mean that 90% of the population oppose the elections, kidnap people and cut their heads off. The economist stated that 9/10 Iraqi’s consider the US as an occupier not a liberator; it is in on of my posts (which as you can see number many). Should I find it I will show it…but it’s a fact that 90% of Iraqi’s do not want the US in their country. there are 3000-5000 fighters, most of which are foreigners answering the call of global Jihad. i.e. these people aren't even Iraqis. In Iraq there are upwards of 20,000 fighters, and possibly even more. I don’t see this insurgency shrinking anytime soon, this is only the beginning of a long drawn out battle btwn the US and the insurgents the vast majority of which are Iraqi. you've got Iranians, Saudis, Jordanians (aka the real Palestinians), Afghanis, Chechens, North-Africans, Syrians... and they're being labelled as the "Iraqi insurgency" They are in no way the majority of the fighters, many of the fighters are Iraqi and they want the US out. That is beyond obvious, yes there are foreign fighters…is that supposed to be shocking. That is why this is so much more dangerous for the US, like the USSR in Afghanistan this war in Iraq is seen as a attack on Islam, and thus the longer the war goes on the worse it gets. there are Iraqis in there, but they're not a voice of the mainstream, they are not popular and they are not freedom fighters. more like fighters-of-Allah. Since most Iraqi’s don’t consider the interim government as anything relevant (and this assault on Fallujah imo will actually undermine the central gov’t), and nothing more then a puppet regime. They are getting desperate, and empirically speaking the insurgency is not shrinking its growing…so ultimately it doesn’t matter because it is already if not becoming a populist insurgency. They are very intelligent for attacking Iraqi soldiers, and police.
that incident was called the My Lai Massacre about 600 (??) or something massacred by US forces. Minimise casulaties, hmm. Jenin, Sabra, Shatila the invasion of Lebanon, the 300 dead since the intifadah?? fish in a barrel?? how can you call the insurgents in Fallujah fish in a barrel since as in guerilla warfare you dont know who the enemy is. where is America firing its missiles?? what are the targets, who are the terrorists? where are they firing from??. the resistince if they wanted could of easily dissolved away to other places (and maybe they have to an extent as we will see in the coming days.) hardly fish in a barrel. on the other hand Americans might be behind heavy armour and superior fire power but the insurgents know clearly who they are and roughly where. a Us soldier is obvioussly spotted in the uraban scenes. and it seems over "1,000" fish have already been shot at from the 138,000 in the barrel.
Sorry skywalker, is that better? Does it sound less like you are suggesting the US should kill everyone in Fallujah?
Are we known for that? really? oh. Well i'll see if the bookie down the road has got any odds Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
You can't really compare it with My Lai. It was a massacre yes, but it was a squad of soldiers operating on there own following the orders of an officer who fliped his lid. I think they were frustrated at not finding anything in the village, had the population lined up near a ditch, and then ordered them all shot. I think thats about right.
Minimise casulaties, hmm. Jenin, Sabra, Shatila the invasion of Lebanon, the 300 dead since the intifadah?? i see... your propaganda hat is on. imagine what Israel, with the army that beat 7 arab armies simultaneously in 1948, and 4 arab armies simultaneously in 1967, with Mossad, the best covert ops agency in the world, and with the arguably best airforce in the world, could do if tehy wanted to maximize casualties. aint no ting but a chicken wing in a g-string. 3000 dead? the tip of the iceberg of what could happen if the IDF were to behave as al-Jazeera and BBC and The Guardian consistently claim it behaves. use your imagination Ahmed. Otheadp, your post reads like a Pravda piece on Soviet progress in Afghanistan in 1981. yeah... compared to your in-depth analysis? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! you sound more like Lenny Rosenthal proudly proclaiming that the Allies are in fact losing and the mighty German army is winning Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ............................... i want to mention one of the objectives that's almost been achieved. Kerry, during his campaign, was moaning that there were off-limits zones to the US army that were not under the control of the interim Iraqi gov't (i.e. in Faluja). it is now [almost] back in Iraqi hands. every police station liberated, has the Iraqi flag on it again.
the Arab Israel wars are irrelavant as there was no actual proper invasion or anything and the battles were land ,air, sea etc. if they continued they would of been bloody. and im not called Ahmed by the way. and what propaganda hat. i think ZIonists are the biggest propagaters. and that all out thing is nonsense. Hitler didnt go all out on the Jews did he but 6 million died. and if you wanna think like that then quit bitching about Suicide bombings and palestinian resistence. so are you trying to say that just because Israel/America is not going all out then that is ok and they can still kill thousads. thats a dumb idea since no army ever goes all out it does it. if they did half the world would be craters, there would be no Jews, and everyone would be dead now. honestly you and well most of the zionists here completely contradict there logics and points so many times. anyone with the time should start looking at Otheadps posts since post 1 until 2 day. Spidergoats aswell and see the difference.
Yeh i know,that was 'nt the point i was trying to make. We are'nt talking about Vietnam, and my comments were just what i remembered about My Lai
Anyone remember Grozny? Or Sarajevo? Or Jenin? I remember thinking as each happened, what savage, primitive, ugly people. Now America is doing the same thing to Fallujah.
Someone remind me why the people being killed in Faluja are being killed? Did they have anything to do with 9/11?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4006305.stm looks like another grozny ( spelling ) to me. Just kill every one. Simple rule of engagement. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! What I said earlier and what this reporter is saying now................I think we all knew it.
We will soon be witnessing a succession of Groznies in Iraq and potentially beyond, as each impact of America's mighty fist spreads the fires of hatred and terror wider, until this American folly is appallingly evident before the entire world- until it's apparent even in Mayberry. Until then, many thousands more "ragheads" are going to die, while Americans dispassionately, disinterestedly discover foreign humanity by violent remote mass-killing, in a war that noone can justify. The resulting pain and hatred will far exceed the coping skills of a minority, who will dedicate themselves to visiting everyday Americans with equivalent suffering. Because war is terror, the War on Terror is not only an oxymoron, but a megadeadly national psychosis. Fight this American epidemic now, because it will only get exponentially worse until we stop it.
Well, "officially" Fallujah has fallen on day 6, with some unorganised pockets of resistance remaining, given figures: rougly 1000 rebels...er, terrorists dead, Al-Zarqawi is believed to have escaped, American army casualties somewhere between 20-30. That figure of 1000 might include some civilians (?) to make things look more clean and less nasty, but still, considering the size of the city, I would not call it a second Grozny. Conclusions: - American urban fighting has improved considerably since the days of Vietnam - airsupport, attacking sniperpositions with gunships, has been important key - Al-Zarqawi probably escaped, is he now a desperado on the run or can he set up his bombing and beheadingsshop elsewhere?
Since when are the insurgents terrorists? What civilians did they target? They only target the military.....
