"fake" Nasa websites?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Jeremyhfht, Apr 22, 2007.

  1. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

    Pre-text note: I'm unsure where this would go. Since it concerns NASA, I put it in this section. If I'm wrong, please do move it.


    These particular three websites have now left me utterly, completely, and beyond all logic, totally and irreversibly lost. My plea here, is to help me understand what the hell is going on. My statements that follow will express why I'm so confused over these websites.

    Origin.mars5 copies Mars Rovers. marsprogram is somewhat of the odd one out, as I cannot locate any dubious images on it. It does, however, link to Mars Rovers. And Visa Versa.

    All of them, also, cannot be accessed from the main NASA/JPL HQ websites
    Such as:

    At least as far as I know. The dubious images in question come from the "RAW" data of both Origin.mars5 and Mars Rovers.

    Some of the images are:

    Others can be found on conspiracy websites that specifically use these websites for their images. While I point blank disagree with the conspiracy theories, I agree that SOMETHING is going on.

    Here are the conspiracy websites, which contain the images (and their assertions about the conspiracies)


    I suggested, prior to being told otherwise, that it could be Data Loss. The colleague that disagrees, however, now thinks it could be. As he's as lost as I am.

    What further confuses me, is that Nasa itself has similarly broken images: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mer/index.html

    So, once again my plea: Help me figure out WHAT in NASA's name is going on.
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  3. D H Some other guy Valued Senior Member

    What are you confused about?

    I can access the first two directly from the JPL home page.
    • http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/
      At the JPL home page, click on Missions (the fourth button from the left just below the JPL logo). This brings you here: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/. Scroll down the Missions page until you see "Mars Exploration Rovers". Click on "Mars Exploration Rover home page".
      A more direct way to get to this page is to use the "Quick Search" capability on the JPL home page. The headline photo on the JPL main website comprises an image and a brief description. Look below the headline photo. You should see "Quick Search" (it is right above "News and Features"). There you should a pair of "Quick Search" menus. The left menu is "Current Missions". Select "Mars Exploration Rover Mission" from this menu.
    • http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/
      The right "Quick Search" menu on the JPL home page is "Useful Links". Select "Mars Exploration".

    Regarding origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov: This might be a mirror of marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov or it might well be the same computer. A computer's real address is its IP address. For example, ( We humans have a hard time knowing what means. www.nasa.gov is much more meaningful. The Domain Name System provides a mechanism for translating that meaningful name to an IP address. A computer can have many nicknames, but it will have only one IP address.


    Do you know how a web page is created? It is quite simple. The author merely writes an html file and uploads this file to some web server. There is no prerequisite that a link to this newly create page exist. There is a lot of material on the web that is not referenced by some "higher level" web page.

    It takes additional work to create a link to a newly authored page. Sometimes that link isn't installed. The author of the main JPL web page has to decide what content should be placed in that page. The new page might not have made the cut.

    The main JPL web page is updated often. Links to old articles are replaced with links to newer content. Just because the link was deleted doesn't mean the page that the link points to is deleted. Web site maintainers often leave old material lying around. It takes extra work to delete the old material, and other pages beside the toplevel page might point to that old material. A large web site, such as NASA, will inherently have a lot of broken links. That you cannot get to some page from a toplevel page is not a sign of a conspiracy. It is a sign of human nature.
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  5. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

    Okay, so that answers that, but the main confusion which lies with the images themselves is not cleared up.

    I've created webpages before. I know how it works. Nice way to waste typing. You should get ganglion cysts.

    That is not even one of my points. I specifically said I disagree with the conspiracy websites. You wasted even more typing rebuking a point that didn't exist.

    So will the next poster care to answer the actual riddle I'm confused about: those images. Preferably with some evidence that NASA uses technology that causes Data Loss that seems like it came from MS Paint?
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  7. D H Some other guy Valued Senior Member

    What images? Are you talking about the drawings of the rovers? Of course they are drawings. What is going to take a close-up picture of the rovers? The rovers are the only active science experiments we have on the surface of Mars right now.

    Edited to add
    If you go to the raw images pages at JPL, you won't see any images with data dropout. Why are you taking the word of a woo-woo as gospel truth and doubting the work of professionals regarding dropouts and image alteration?

    Some woo-woos are quite adept at altering images and feel no compuction in doing so if the alterations prove their point. Woo-woos work on their own. Who is going to inform the media that a woo-woo is fabricating evidence?

    On the other hand, a large team of people are involved in receiving, processing, and cataloging the imagery sent back to Earth by the rovers. At least one of those team members would have talked to the media if any kind of hanky-panky was going on at JPL. "The only way three people can keep a secret is if at least two of them are dead."

    Recently, NASA did find signs of water on Mars. Did they hide this fact? No. They held a big press conference and announced it to the world.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2007
  8. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

    I'd like to point out that all of the images are hosted on the NASA websites. That's the point. That's my confusion.

    An example is this image: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...IA05018_br.jpg

    The seemingly MS painted mars rover dial.

    I'd like to know why these images are on NASA servers. Even you have said they're "fake", so why are they hosted by NASA? That's why I said "somethings amiss". Be it Data loss, or something else.

    Speaking of Data loss: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/167/1P143011712ESF3221P2593L6M1.JPG

    That image in particular could use explaining. It looks like it had Free Select used on it, and "cut" in Paint. I'd also like to clarify, again, that I am Not siding with the conspiracy theorists. I'm trying to find a logical reason for this.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2007
  9. D H Some other guy Valued Senior Member

    Bad link. Take care when you cut and past links. You had it right in post #1, http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040108a/PIA05018_br.jpg

    If you look at the image galleries, you will see many, many images of that "seemingly MS painted mars rover dial". It is a real image. What makes you think it is fake?

    There is no "Data loss" in this image. "Data loss" has a very specific meaning. The image does look grainy. This could be caused by the camera itself or by a suboptimal onboard data compression algorithm. The data link from Mars to the Earth is very narrow. The onboard systems do a lot of work to reduce the amount of data that needs to be transmitted to Earth. Sometimes, that work results in not-so-pretty images.
  10. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

    Okay, then if it's a real image, you've just agreed with conspiracy theorists. The second conspiracy website points out the color differences of when it was on mars/earth.

    Furthermore, the image looks like it was edited in paint. No real color looks like that. Had it not been on a NASA website I wouldn't have bothered, but NASA does not chuck out images like that.

    For Data Loss:
    Yes, yes there is. Had you looked on the first conspiracy website, the one with all the images, you'd find something strange. Here are three images, from the same rover, and from the same position:


    The fake horizon is what I speak of. As for the more "data-loss" type things:

    I want to know if that's what those boxes are, and if you know what technology could cause that loss. Also why that horizon was chopped up like that (there's white nothingness behind it).

    Similar images are all over the NASA websites. Also, as shown on the first conspiracy website (http://xenotechresearch.com/NASAHACK.htm), there are also images that have very sharp edges that appear to be lost data.

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