extraordinary IQ and ability

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by rayview, Oct 23, 2003.

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  1. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    Is there evidence that having an ultra high IQ is a hindrance? As far as I know, having a very high IQ is advantageous. IQ relates with job performance and income. Having a high IQ is quite the opposite of a hindrance.

    I think that what normally happens is this:



    - and this is not easy to deal with.

    The above-average IQ person must have parents, other relatives, teachers and others who will not hold it against them to be above-average and who will not otherwise sabotage them, but instead provide with good life skills.
    Without that supportive social network, I think the above-average IQ person is likely going to have many problems in life.[/QUOTE]

    I'm sure this happens, and I've heard of it happening, but is it statistically significant?
     
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    society expect more from those with higher iq's. they forget that they are just people with their own personalites, quirks and interests. some may not want to do anything significant with it.

    if you are not motivated, it doesn't matter what you can do or your iq. your personality and your interests will determine what you do, usually, more than anything else.
     
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  5. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Whether it is "statistically significant" or not matters very little when you are the one to whom this is happening.
     
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  7. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry.
     
  8. M00se1989 Banned Banned

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    sucks... my personal interests haven't been invented yet... oh well I will just control the interests of other people till the day comes. It is true thought most intelligent people are not as well rounded as one would hope for.
     
  9. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    Is it true though?
     
  10. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    Incidents of underachievement in high-IQ children is fairly well studied area of child psychology, as is the tendency of high-IQ children to perfectionism and the problems that can cause them significant developmental issues. That said, I have not seen anything that conclusively established that these issues persist into adulthood. They might, of course, but it's possible that with the self-selection of a new peer group and a focus on activities where perfectionism is more of a boon than a hindrance, that the issues largely disappear over time.
     
  11. kmguru Staff Member

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    I agree with Signal. High IQ is a hindrance. People do not want to believe you even if you show them the proof. Say, you came up with a ground breaking solution. It was tested for 25 years and they work. The rest of the community in that field will refuse to accept it...like the world is flat verses round.

    This happens to the creationists, economists like Nasim Taleb etc.

    The only time high IQ is a benefit is when IQ is only 10 or 15 points above the common pool. But if you have IQ above 185, then it is extremely difficult to be socially fit. I know, my son has that problem and he was tested in elementary school.
     
  12. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    I have a lot of difficulty believing that. 110-115 is intelligent relative to the baseline--the population at large. Think about what that includes. On the other hand, 110-115 is somewhat dull if you're talking about people who work in IT, and almost extremely dull for people who work in science.

    Bill Gates has an IQ of 160, which is a rather high IQ. In fact, it's about four standard deviations, which means he's roughly one out of 40,000. He's an outlier. That guy will read big books in a day and practically memorize them. He worked his ass off and built Microsoft. I really just don't see how it's helpful to call someone like that "handicapped." In fact, I would go beyond that and say, he's the opposite of handicapped--super-enabled. There aren't many people who are capable of doing what he is.

    On the other hand, take someone who has Down's Syndrome. Now that's a real handicap. There are lots of people who are capable of doing what he is, which isn't a lot.
     
  13. kmguru Staff Member

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    Which part? Handicap beyond 185?
     
  14. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    The part I meant specifically was when you said it's only beneficial to have a higher than average IQ when it's in the 110-115 range. That's very obviously untrue.

    As for the super high IQ part--as in 185 or so--that may be true. But is it? Do we have something better than anecdotal evidence? That's all I'm saying. And besides... those people are super duper uncommon.
     
  15. kmguru Staff Member

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    First of all, I said 10 or 15 points above common pool, meaning if you are an engineer who usually have an average of 140 points then 150 to 155 has an advantage. If you are a sugeon with x amount as common IQ, add 10 to 15 to get an edge...etc.

    How is it obviously untrue?

    I said my son was tested in school... in Utah and it is on record with the State. And he lives with us, so we have been through the ringer all these years.

    Yes it is uncommon, but there it is. By the way, he was born in Utah and we met several kids that have exhibited similar phenomena. His childhood friend is hyper intelligent too and manifested ADHD and was given Ritalin, Lithium and other drugs. My son was on Lithium, Norpramine and others, but due to his heart conditions, he could not take the drugs.

    I think, Utah has unusually high birth of ADHD kids. Me thinks, the nuclear test in Nevada may have contributed to such issues, but that is just speculation.

    Obviously there is a whole world out there that you do not have the data to make the comment...one has to experience it to know...
     
  16. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    Ahh, sorry, I misinterpreted. By common pool, I thought you meant the population at large--i.e., in which the IQ mean is 100. Are you sure engineers average 140? That's a very high IQ, bordering on genius. If so, you're saying all engineers are borderline genius, and frankly, geniuses aren't very common. But engineers are.

    But now that I understand your true point, I still have difficulty with it. Let's say engineers average something more realistic--120, which is still quite bright. You're saying it's only an advantage if your IQ is 130-135 (keep in mind that 130 is considered gifted), but then it becomes a hindrance when it is higher. That's a very, very bold statement to make, one which must be backed up. Again, Bill Gates man. A high IQ makes a big difference in what one is capable of doing, even as you reach the upper levels.

    Ignoring that this is anecdotal evidence, how can you be so confident that his extreme intelligence is related to his psychological issues. Er... what kind of issue is it? I kinda get the feeling that this "hindrance" argument is getting muddled. Is genius a hindrance because society expects these geniuses to do great things, or is it a hindrance because there is a connection between genius and mental instability? What are we talking about here?

    I'm not denying that neither happens. It's just that my ringers buzz when people say that geniuses are always screwed up in some way, and that it's always a hindrance. And beyond that, if one is going to make a claim like that, it should be easy to back it up. I'd imagine there must be information about it.
     
  17. kmguru Staff Member

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    Couple of things:

    1. If you Google the average IQ of electrical engineers, you will find the number 126 in several sites. When I was an young engineer, my IEEE magazine said it was 140 and that number stuck with me. I did check the IEEE site but I guess those old magazines are not archived on the net. I am too lazy to go through 100s of pages in Google to find it, because IQ usually means Information Quality.

    2. What I presented about the handicap issue is a personal experience - it is the same experience that allowed me to solve complex one of a kind issues over 40 years. But you do not have to believe it because it may not fit the average structures of human existence. Those who understand it can use it for their benefit, those who do not, will lead a normal life. Like the IQ we are talking about.

    Super high IQ does have benefits, but that is rarely documented because the documentor is usually a moron in comparison, to accept the data, let alone publish books to qualify such framework.

    IEEE claims to have 360,000 members worldwide, so it is not that common. In my graduate studies, no stat group came to do research on the IQ of my classmates.

    mit.edu has tons of information on "Intelligence quotient". I am too lazy to find the report that matches my POV. So I will let you win on this one, even if, it is wrong - the number part.

    I do not claim that.
     
  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    We're all screwed up in some way! Given that reality, that statement is intuitively reasonable, just too vague to test.
     
  19. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    To that I say, Bah! There's a difference between individuality and quirkiness and actually being screwed up.
     
  20. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Oh?
     
  21. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    You heard me, homeboy slicemaster.
     
  22. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Yeah okay, I'll treat that assertion with respect. Now what practical techniques exist for actually making that distinction?
     
  23. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    Isn't that what the DSM is? It may not be perfect, but at least someone's on the job.
     
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