extraordinary IQ and ability

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by rayview, Oct 23, 2003.

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  1. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

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    In all Mr. Sidis genius he didnt value reproduction and the implications of his celibate perfect life theory. Too bad all that genius ends with him lol.
     
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  3. kmguru Staff Member

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    That is not very smart. Is it?
     
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  5. Dr Mabuse Percipient Thaumaturgist Registered Senior Member

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    The best definition of 'genius' I have seen was something like this:

    "A spontaneous comprehension of things to which there has been no previous experience or exposure."(paraphrased)

    This is what extraordinary IQ's can do that others can't more than anything. There are, of course, many other things.

    A person with high intelligence can imagine a surfer surfing on a wave of light and change the way the world will look at the universe forever, for only one example.

    My IQ, averaged over ten years of testing, is in the 99.98 percentile. My three or four highest scores are higher than that.

    It's not a gift as much as many tend to think it is.

    "The worst pain a man can suffer: to have insight into much and power over nothing." - Herodotus

    "For with much wisdom comes much sorrow: the more knowledge, the more grief." - Koheleth
     
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  7. kmguru Staff Member

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    You mean like a genius Lawyer wakes up one morning and have the knowledge and experience of doing brain surgery that he did not have the day before?

    IQ of 99.98% is on Wechsler or Stanford-Binet? Very nice though.
    Mine on Wechsler is 99.9999995062%
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  8. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    IQ and wisdom are two different things.
     
  9. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Let's not forget that a high IQ can be accompanied by a lot of vanity.
     
  10. kmguru Staff Member

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    It is manageable....

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  11. Dr Mabuse Percipient Thaumaturgist Registered Senior Member

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    I'm assuming this is a joke?

    My percentile was of recorded IQ's on a Bell curve, not one approach of a test's rankings. My averaged score over years of testing was higher than 99.98% of IQ's that had been recorded in the US by the various 'approved of' tests. That's the rounded number anyway, I forget the exact number if I was ever shown it. My highest scores on particular tests were considerably higher than that. I remember one tester, though they were not allowed to tell me my actual scores for some reason, saying I was in the upper 2 percentile, of the upper 2 percentile, of the upper 2 percentile on that test.

    By the time I was in high school I had a number of people flying in from out of state to test me with various tests for Phd thesis and research on the 'exceptionally gifted', I got out of class a lot so I didn't mind. As far as particular test rankings, starting in the 2nd grade it was years before an intelligence test was found that I didn't peg across the board. I was in the local news a few times because of this, though I was unaware of this until later, and I was given all kinds of tests to find one that 'measured' me. I started taking basic college courses in the third grade under some 'gifted' program in the school system, I got out of class and had more fun at the university, so again I didn't mind. I don't even remember how many different IQ tests of how many different types I took but it was a bunch, I mean a lot, all kinds of tests. I have no idea where I place on Wechsler or Stanford-Binet. I would assume it was Wechsler that I had to be 're-certified' as 'gifted' on every two years after the 6th grade though. I believe that was 'the' test for that certification stuff but I'm not sure about that. I know I took Stanford-Binet too because that name rang a bell when I saw it. It's been a long time.
     
  12. kmguru Staff Member

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    Very nice. I wonder how the IQ will be affected as you and I get older. So far I am doing OK. I still can comprehend highly complex muti-variable large data sets in problem areas to create a solution set. But as time passes, who knows....
     
  13. Dr Mabuse Percipient Thaumaturgist Registered Senior Member

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    I feel really old now... lol. I'm not sure I wouldn't have rather been fully average instead of the way I am. I look forward to losing a lot of it frankly.

    "Happy is the fool"

    On the other hand... Socrates would approve of me I suppose because I consider the hell out of every fucking little thing. Throughout my life there were so many times I just wanted to turn 'it' off. Hence my self medicating.
     
  14. kmguru Staff Member

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    What are you self medicating with?
     
  15. Dr Mabuse Percipient Thaumaturgist Registered Senior Member

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    I'm sober right now.

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    In the past... the list of what I had not self medicated with would be a hell of a lot shorter.

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  16. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    Doesn't sound to smart.

    Personally I've never taken a IQ test but apart from some social incompetence I'm abouth average (social incompetence these days apear to be having less then 200 friends and having not more then 1 girlfriend)
     
  17. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    It's not. But it has no bearing on IQ. Imagine how you'd feel if your brain just never stopped. We've all experienced it on occasion, but for some people it's endless. You can't even sleep when you're tired most of the time because you end up thinking yourself awake once you're alone with your thoughts. I know some people who can't get to sleep without some mindless drivel bellowing out of the idiot box. Self-medicating also isn't just about slowing yourself down, it's also about escaping from a reality you see more clearly than most. No-one teaches us how to cope with reality because people typically either don't recognize it for what it is, or pretend that it's something else. And then of course there's the feeling of alienation. You don't often get a chance to simply be yourself because people inevitably end up thinking you're seriously fucking out there. This of course is problem for a lot of people for a lot of different reasons, but it's probably one of the most significant factors. Yet another problem is the fact you inevitably end up making some people feel inadequate, and you're often not really meaning to. It's not a pleasant feeling for them of course, but it's not pleasant for you either. Believe it or not in the end it just serves to exacerbate the problem.

    If I can offer people in this situation some quick advice, it's the truly simple things in life that make the most difference. Breathing (deliberately), walking, riding, jogging, music (playing as well as listening, if you do) etc, simply having enough calming activities in your life to keep your internal clock rate low enough to stay sane. Being outwardly focused is the key. And of core importance is embracing the positive things about life. It's good advice for everyone of course, but more critical for some. If you've got a high performance vehicle, it's essential that you adhere to a more rigorous maintenance regime. It's that simple.

    I'm not a genius like some of you people probably are. I've never sat a proper IQ test, but I think I'd know it if I was anything truly special. But I've been thinking myself right to the edge of sanity for as long as I can remember. Life, the universe and everything, to borrow a phrase. If I allow myself to go on like that for too many days, I start to feel isolated, withdrawn and sometimes empty. And I start seriously wrestling with those age old questions again. What the fuck am I doing here and what is the point of all of this? I've asked that a thousand thousand thousand times, but in this particular state it's suddenly a profoundly critical question again and I've lost my sense of humour about it. I can't chuckle at myself anymore and move on. What I do to fix this is stop reading whatever new popular physics or philosophy book I might have been reading that set me off (often the catalyst was something else, and sometimes something I can't recall at the time) and make a very concerted effort to calm down. I just do something else. One of those things that I listed above, or something similar. Sometimes I just go and kill some zombies in some virtual 3D arena on my gaming box. Basically I just stay away from anything mentally intensive. And I remind myself that I wont calm down immediately. It will take a while. Eventually though, some semblance of equilibrium is restored. A couple of days later, I'm seeing the world like a "normal" person again. Mostly.

    I'm aware that this is all going to sound pretty extreme to some people, but overall I function very well socially. In my work I spend almost every hour assisting other people in various ways and I typically enjoy it. I'm sociable and I generally get along well with everyone. And I have a core group of friends with which I'm able to discuss the deeper more intellectual stuff, or just be completely stupid when I need a break from it all. It took me quite a while however to be able to find a reasonable balance socially. I'm 35 now, but my twenties were full of social awkwardness and a general feeling of detachedness which I think was mostly a product of having to modify the way I communicated with other people so they wouldn't think I was too strange. You probably wouldn't have known however. As they say, if you can't make it, fake it. I just forced myself to talk about normal mundane bullshit like most people seem to spend all their time doing. Unsatisfying for the most part, but better than the alternative.

    Who asked for my life story anyway? Sorry to bore you with it, if you indeed you do find it boring. It's primarily an address to those people in this thread who might relate to what I'm saying. There's a lot of people who've had similar experiences, sometimes for different reasons, and the general wisdom that leads to an effective strategy to combat the problem is the same, no matter how smart you are. It's always about balance. Harder to find for some, and certainly a little more work than a pharmaceutical or "non-prescription" remedy (which isn't a real remedy at all of course), but possible nonetheless.
     
  18. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    I hate doing this.

    I used to do it all the time, but it just makes me feel tired and sad, and detached from the world. I end up thinking, why do I bother to interact, if people don't want to talk to the real me, just a deliberately created moronogram?

    I'm not even especially smart. Just a girl who can talk in more than two syllables.

    I'd rather be thought weird. Let people have their small talk and their mundane crap. I don't want any.
     
  19. alinko Registered Senior Member

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    Lonliness....yes seems stupid but trust me, a great reson why someone at 700 IQ may kill themselves. Imagine being a caveman wh osuddenly understands everything. In a world of caves, at a time when language hasn't even developed yet you suddenly understand the concept of religion, physics, internet, how planes fly, TV, music, Radio but you have no one around to share it...no one t oeven begin comprehending the horrible amounts of knowledge you know and the things you have seen. That would be the fate of such a man in this day an age.....the man who has an IQ of 700....insanity will very likely drive the man to death.[/QUOTE]

    ya know u could verywell be correct, for even in this day and age, if u could explain the most complicated situation, and show them how simple it was,
    first thell just say like dude that was cool, but u continue to try and relate such terms with the him or her theyll just think, u r just showing off and stuff like that, no bodie likes being told wrong every time

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  20. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    Good point. And the kinds of information should be as wide as possible including anything from moving one's body through patterns to musical patterns to social ones. A number of high IQ people are truly, truly stupid in a lot of contexts.
     
  21. kmguru Staff Member

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    We sometimes equate High IQ with idiot savants, child prodigy etc. That is why True IQ like Wisdom is different. I consider myself smart but not idiot savant smart. That is why, I can do many things as per the demand of the occasion and my goals. Then I dump that part of the memory to make room for other knowledge. For example many years ago, I did rocket (Titan type) engineering extremely well, but as I started doing other things like computer systems, today I forgot 90% of it.

    You can be just super smart in one field. These are the people who are "truly, truly stupid in a lot of contexts". For example, Larry Summers who is the economic adviser to our President was interviewed by Charlie Rose at Davos for an hour. When you hear him, you will say, boy this guy is smart, then why does he advise stupid stuff to the president and why he does not understand the impact of Asia in our economy?
     
  22. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    The brain, as they've recently found out, is fairly plastic. I experience this with writing poetry. I have to retrain myself to do this. Immerse in poetry, start focusing more consciously on the sounds of the words themselves, allow mental images to develop more, focus more consciously on the rhythms of speech. After I do this for a while I find poems just arrive or pieces do anyway. But this intelligence is too dormant before I reenter this set of modes.

    Da vinci?

    I think IQ is radically overrated. And some of the really high IQs I've known I wouldn't leave alone with my kids. Not because they were bad people, but because they were stupid. Some socially. Some no practical issues. Some on basic navigation of the physical world intelligence. Some short on common sense. They tend to measure a few kinds of intelligence on IQ tests but far from the whole set.

    I think this is a damaging distortion too, as these people are often consulted, as you point out, on things they are stupid about. I notice also that they tend to be rather mainstream in startling ways.

    EDIT: I realized this was all coming off rather negative. I spent too much of my education in places where IQ was confused with intelligence and this overestimation left a bad taste in the mouth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  23. Dr Mabuse Percipient Thaumaturgist Registered Senior Member

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    714
    Wow.

    Good stuff fellas.

    Making people feel inadequate or 'jealous' is a daily thing for me. I have to make an effort to remember this at all times, but I fail often. I have found you cannot be 'fake' about things for very long at all even if you really try, you'll slip up and then you get the 'what are you, a doctor?', 'what are you, a professor?', etc. People trying to fit you into their rather superficial worldview.

    Also having things come to you so easily makes you want to quit that and start something else. I know why Leonardo from the town of Vinci quit far more projects in his life than he ever came close to completing. He got bored and wanted something new. The internet is a blessing as you can multitask in so many ways. As I write this I am also helping a vBulletin forum admin(different forum) plug in an HD Youtube call and post button on his forum, and I'm discussing the bible with another person, and movie torrents about how to merge Matroska files into one contiguous video and modify subtitles to sync up with the frame rate.

    Others... I remember one day a manager at a FedEX I was installing a new routing and planning computer for, and getting it tied into the FedEX upstream systems had known me for while. He was not intellectual, but pragmatic and wise. I had a lot of respect for him over time. He came into the office with a driver, a young girl who was in a bad way, he simply said 'Where's Mabuse(not my real name)' in a loud voice. I heard him and said 'over here man'. He came over and said 'exactly what would be the symptoms if someone had appendix problems?' I didn't look up from my systems works and described them, also mentioning what would change if one had burst. I then glanced up and saw her with him, and I simply said 'yeah right there where Mandy is pointing on her abdomen, that's it exactly'. She was under the knife for a burst appendix literally within the hour. The fallout from that simple scenario, all except for from the manager, Mandy(who thanked me with a gift after she recovered), and couple of others was not good. Someone said after the manager took off with Mandy and sped to the hospital: "What the hell is he asking you for, you ain't no doctor." After that I was treated differently for the remainder of time there on that gig, I could observe the people who had seen it or heard about it trying to incorporate me into their dim grasp of this world. It was never a positive thing. All over a simple thing like that where I had only tried to answer a question, and in doing so actually helped a girl. A burst appendix can turn deadly fast. I found out later she had fainted out on the dock, and that's when the manager had brought her to find me. On top of that human anatomy is pretty fucking basic stuff.

    In many ways I am virtually alone. I can't really discuss much of anything with many people at all. People with higher than average IQ's actually seem to feel more 'threatened'(I guess) by me. Petty stuff of 'who knows more' and etc rear their head. It gets... well it's hard to describe what it's like to be in many ways alone on things. To have to remind yourself to not discuss things, and act... well... 'dumb it down' all the time on every freaking thing.

    I used to seek out professors of various topics just so I could discuss things with them freely. Even then I got 'what are your credentials? How do you know this?', but I could have a discussion with them on a topic like history, or physics, or etc from time to time. But of course not for long, and some of them were so petty and became blatantly envious and etc. I remember some professor of eastern philosophy(IIRC) wanting to meet me after I called to find out where I could get a copy of Dogen's Shobogenzo Zuimonki when I was a lot younger. The prof acting like even knowing about that book was some 'high level' stuff only for academics, and how hard it would be for a 'normal' westerner to grasp the stuff she warned me, asking me - yet again - about my credentials and etc. I see them trying to rationalize it/me into their world view instead of simply... well anyway. To her I guess, I made all her effort and time in school to learn about the stuff seem 'less' or something. Which is silly of course.

    It get's old and can be frustrating to be virtually alone with your thoughts in so many ways. Then you come to have a poor opinion of people over time. "They're all morons!" will overtake you, but that's not true of course. I have to make an effort to remember that though, to tell myself that people all have good qualities, and to look for them carefully. They are not all morons.

    I was told in my teens that it was virtually a statistical certainty I would never meet my intellectual equal in my life, as is true for most exceptionally gifted intellects. A very wise woman kind of took me under her wing and helped me tremendously on 'life' in general when I was a teen, not the intellectual stuff, the real stuff. She became some type of counselor at a university, I continued to visit her from time to time and we'd talk. One day, one of the last times I ever spoke to her, she asked me with tears in her eyes, how would I ever find someone to marry who would understand me?

    Man she was wise. I didn't understand then what I do now. She knew, in her wisdom, what lay ahead for me. He that gathers much knowledge only gathers grief for himself. I also remember very clearly things that 'time eases the pain' about for most. The blade that 'holds' the sharp also 'holds' the dull, to use a metallurgical metaphor.

    Some of the coolest times of my life was doing systems consulting work at LANL. I could talk for hours with some damned impressive people about all manner of things. I skipped the 'what are your credentials' stuff as best I could. I should have went ahead and taken a job that was offered to me there I suppose, but I liked working for myself and I made good money at it. Many times I have regretted not upgrading my clearance and taking the job though.

    I wouldn't trade 'it' for anything... but I would love to be rid of it at the same time. My son was just 'certified' as 'gifted' this year at his shcool and they are wanting him to skip at least three grades in elementary school. I will be there to help him understand the stuff, I didn't have anyone in my family myself.

    The Youtube HD button works flawlessly btw, and we have a whole MKV file with sync'd subs for burning.

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