extraordinary IQ and ability

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by rayview, Oct 23, 2003.

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  1. rayview Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
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    In theory, the IQ scale is infinite. I know that 100 is considered average and 154 or something is considered borderline genius. I am curious as to what things a person could be able "to do" given they are a certain IQ. For example, I would assume someone with a average IQ, would read at about an average speed, do basic arithmetic at a average speed, say adding two 7-digit numbers might take 8 seconds. Further, and average person might be able to memorize a max of 8 random numbers for short recall etc... Well suppose the person has a IQ of 200, what kind of things can that person now do? Do they have a partial photo-graphic memory? Can they add two 7-digit numbers in 2 seconds? Finally, and what really interests me... Suppose a person has an IQ of 300 or 400, or even 700 what sort of abilities could someone expect to see here. someone with a 700 IQ (whether or not they would still be considered completely human at this point doesn't really matter) would definitely have a photographic IQ and a "calculator" like mind, but what new never before seen abilities would they have? Please don’t say telekinetic or something like that, lets just keep it at math, language, learning and things we are aware of in general. For example, maybe someone with an IQ of 700 could learn all of college chemistry in a day or something like that…
     
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  3. Greco Registered Senior Member

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    394
    cyborg rising

    Everything that you can imagine would be childs play for a cyborg. A man/machine interface is just around the corner. Once man can access a super computer who knows what he'll be able to do.

    The technology (embedded chips) is already being worked on for the blind and deaf. I can see crude cyborgs in 20 years. Then god help us.
     
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  5. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    IQ tests are meant to test your thinking ability, not your memorization skills.
     
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  7. rayview Registered Senior Member

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    33
    yeah well try thinking with out any memory. People love to say that intelligence and memory have nothing to do with each other. but that is silly. For example, IQ tests always have verbal questions that involve high level vocabulary words. Two people might have the same ability to read and understand new vocabulary words they come across, but the one who remembers them better is the one who retains "builds" a better vocabulary and is rewarded on IQ tests.
     
  8. VitalOne Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,716
    Ofcourse you need some kind of memory (obviously), but your memorization skills do not test how well you think, just how well you can recall information. You can memorize all the answers to questions and not understand a thing. Some people are great thinkers, but have bad memory , some mentally challenged, and can remember things easily. IQ test always test how you recongnize patterns, solve problems, and interpret things.
     
  9. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    True IQ should relate to 'how well you connect the dots' from disparate information. No one can design a simple IQ test to metricize this ability.
     
  10. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    All IQ tests are butressed (compared) against the intelligence that created the test. The results are arbitrary in that sense.

    There does however appear to be some correlation to such test with the ability to reason. It is just that any results which project higher than the intelligence of those formulating the test are in uncharted territory and not reliable in terms of any real meaning.

    A person with a particular gift for an area of the test that is presented by others could seem to be a genius but given a test developed by some other group could appear less than average.

    There are some rather extensive and generally good for trending but there a lot more that are ad hoc garbage.
     
  11. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,844
    Hells yeah.

    Hey it's really even more than that, as it is your memory that shapes your mind to begin with really, at least it's a major component of how it gets shaped.

    Further, consciousness itself in a sense is a function of memory if you're defining it as "self-awareness", as you have to be able to at least remember the last few seconds or access your long term memory in order to be able to know you are you.
     
  12. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,698
    Well if you want to stick to reality and practical cause and effect of a IQ of 700 well then the host would die...a brutal death i might add.

    Our mind has limited cognitive ability for a reason even though it is propsed that the human brain can host much larger amounts of cognitive power....it is simply because the rest of the body is not designed to handle it.

    Just like a PC's processor the human brain creates heat...more when it is under constant pressure. At current state it releases 60% of body heat alone through the head so imagine a brain working overtime at 7 times the speed....your nerves along with the skin would melt, chances are the matter would burn itself away.

    But say the heat issue has been remdied now you have the trouble of stimulus. As your IQ grows so must your senses in order to keep an equilibrium between the two. Imagine at 700 IQ hearing everything in a half a mile radius, seeing everything a few miles away with great detail and smelling every thing in your surrounding area....it is stimilus overload...the brain would have to process so much junk information that your sense pick up with astuse and deadly efficeincy..so muchthat you just can't tune out.

    Last but not least Lonliness....yes seems stupid but trust me, a great reson why someone at 700 IQ may kill themselves. Imagine being a caveman wh osuddenly understands everything. In a world of caves, at a time when language hasn't even developed yet you suddenly understand the concept of religion, physics, internet, how planes fly, TV, music, Radio but you have no one around to share it...no one t oeven begin comprehending the horrible amounts of knowledge you know and the things you have seen. That would be the fate of such a man in this day an age.....the man who has an IQ of 700....insanity will very likely drive the man to death.
     
  13. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    Sargentlard,

    First I have no qualifications with respect to this topic but from what I do understand; two things:

    1 - The IQ system is actually distorted up around 200. That is for the test to measure something with any meaning the test has to be written and understood as to what the results mean.

    One can project somewhat above the intelligence of the formulators of the test but it is like a polynomial curve generator. You can generate a very accurate best fit curve over a number of data points but the very moment you predict beyond the end data point it gets wildly out of line. So the arbitrary figure of 700 is meaningless but understood to mean highly intelligent and likely untestable also.

    2 - I agree that heightened senses would likely improve ones IQ in that such a person would tend to process more data and find greater correlations than most but I don't agree that heightened senses are required to achieve extraordinary IQ. Hawkin being an example. In fact I have observed first hand how the blind gain increased senses of hearing and feel for example.

    In grade school they had a totally blind person come to our school and in his presentation he estimated the size of the room and the approximate number of people in the room.
     
  14. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    May be...armed with that much knowledge, one could easily become God in the cave country...with girls...girls...

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    If your sun going nova and you are allowed to time travel to a safer time...what would you do?
     
  15. malkiri Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    198
    First off, let's drop the IQ terminology and stick to a generic term of 'superintelligent', since 'IQ of 700' is more or less nonsensical.

    What basis do you have for saying this? Seems completely absurd to me. "The matter would burn itself away"? While I'm no expert on neurology, I highly doubt that the brain of an average person would be that much less active. Not to mention that there's no reason to assume that the brain must work 7 times harder to be 7 times as intelligent.

    And what reason do you have to believe that there's a correlation between intelligence and the senses? The reason I can't see a few miles away is due to my eyes, not some limitation in my intelligence. Anyway, even if there is some sort of correlation, then what's to say you're unable to process the additional sensory information?

    I don't have any problem with conjectures, but you're presenting this information like it's established fact.
     
  16. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,698
    Yes, i have heard of this.

    I was weren't i?..i apologize....i am no expert in this field (technically i shouldn't even be here seeing what i plan to do for a living)

    I am thinking an IQ of 700 (which isn't practical by any means) would consume much more nergy and produce much more heat and generally be under much more stress.

    Well this was based on another two assumptions of mine.

    1) With a higher IQ i am expecting higher sense development (not a few extra point bump but more like going from 150 to 700). I doubt at 700 i wouldn't have better hearing and vision.

    2) Another assumption that with honed senses and astute ability to gather stimulus ia mthinking there is too much to process...like a cosntant machine that never rests.

    But either way i find an IQ of 700 to be highly impractical.

    Well at 700 IQ that man would have to find the secret of immortality or near immortality to live that long.

    Or they'll think you are the devil and kill you.
     
  17. Angelus Son Of House Ravenhearte Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    431
    I doubt they would think you the devil. Someone with that much comprehension should have at least a basic grasp on human behavior and be able to manipulate the group in a way that is subtle and doesn't obviously set him apart from the pack.
     
  18. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,698
    I don't know, human stupidity can do wonders. Anyway comprehension and manipulation are two different gifts. Someone with all knowledge may be too weak to play that in his/her favor to become a god.
     
  19. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,101
    I think if someone was to "supposedly" have an IQ of 700, the entire method of measuring IQ's would instantly be changed, lessening the number.

    This happens all the time, and why there are so many different IQ test variations, as with each generation "intelligence" seems to rise, although the reality is more that there is more freedom of information for people to discover, especially in the wake of such things as the internet.

    The intelligence of those that have old school tuition of prior 1960's might have extremely high IQ's then but now they might find their knowledge outdated and surpassed. (Although that sounds like I'm saying they are obslete, I don't mean that at all)

    Again you could look to how people were at points in the past further than that, and you would see that what at the time someone would discover (i.e. Newtonian laws) are now things that are commonly understood.
     
  20. Fathoms Banned Banned

    Messages:
    244
    Of course it does need to be considered that knowledge only serves to buffer intelligence. All knowledge really is is a quantified memorization of facts. It says little of a persons faculties of logical and abstract reasoning. I think it is the aim of IQ tests to asses innate cognitive function. Which isn't too say that education, and the modes of learning presented in that education, don't play a role in encouraging or discouraging a particular intellegence trait. I think the largest role education plays in nurturing a persons intellegence is in the process, or mechanism, of learning more-so the knowledge itself.

    I'd be interested in how an extrordinarily intellegent human might cultivate the abilities of a savaant. I'd also be interested if there might yet be discovered much richer ways of nourishing the mind than traditional learning methods. Perhaps an absurdedly smart human might be blessed with insights for the cause.
     
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    IQ tests are limited by their scope. You have to miss at least one question for the test to be able to estimate your intelligence. If you finish the test and get them all right, all it can tell you is that your IQ is above a certain level.

    Than 154 breakpoint for genius is one of the alternative IQ scales, perhaps the one that Mensa uses. On the Stanford-Binet scale, which is used in 99% of testing, 140 puts you in the 98th percentile (or is it the 99th?) and that's generally acknowledged as genius.

    In defense of the Mensa test, theirs is harder and therefore can measure intelligence that would go off the top end of the scale on the usual Stanford-Binet scoring system.

    But in ordinary discourse you should stick to Stanford-Binet terminology. To the average person if you start talking about an IQ of 154 they're thinking about somebody who could get out there with Einstein.
     
  22. theoneiuse Theoneiuse Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    299
    hey man sorry to tell you but your an idiot and by the way ever tried talking to a box
     
  23. Cottontop3000 Death Beckoned Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,959
    Everything that you can imagine would be childs play for a cyborg. A man/machine interface is just around the corner. Once man can access a super computer who knows what he'll be able to do.

    The technology (embedded chips) is already being worked on for the blind and deaf. I can see crude cyborgs in 20 years. Then god help us.

    IQ tests are meant to test your thinking ability, not your memorization skills.

    yeah well try thinking with out any memory. People love to say that intelligence and memory have nothing to do with each other. but that is silly. For example, IQ tests always have verbal questions that involve high level vocabulary words. Two people might have the same ability to read and understand new vocabulary words they come across, but the one who remembers them better is the one who retains "builds" a better vocabulary and is rewarded on IQ tests.

    Ofcourse you need some kind of memory (obviously), but your memorization skills do not test how well you think, just how well you can recall information. You can memorize all the answers to questions and not understand a thing. Some people are great thinkers, but have bad memory , some mentally challenged, and can remember things easily. IQ test always test how you recongnize patterns, solve problems, and interpret things.

    True IQ should relate to 'how well you connect the dots' from disparate information. No one can design a simple IQ test to metricize this ability.

    All IQ tests are butressed (compared) against the intelligence that created the test. The results are arbitrary in that sense.

    There does however appear to be some correlation to such test with the ability to reason. It is just that any results which project higher than the intelligence of those formulating the test are in uncharted territory and not reliable in terms of any real meaning.

    A person with a particular gift for an area of the test that is presented by others could seem to be a genius but given a test developed by some other group could appear less than average.

    There are some rather extensive and generally good for trending but there a lot more that are ad hoc garbage.

    Hells yeah.

    Hey it's really even more than that, as it is your memory that shapes your mind to begin with really, at least it's a major component of how it gets shaped.

    Further, consciousness itself in a sense is a function of memory if you're defining it as "self-awareness", as you have to be able to at least remember the last few seconds or access your long term memory in order to be able to know you are you.

    Well if you want to stick to reality and practical cause and effect of a IQ of 700 well then the host would die...a brutal death i might add.

    Our mind has limited cognitive ability for a reason even though it is propsed that the human brain can host much larger amounts of cognitive power....it is simply because the rest of the body is not designed to handle it.

    Just like a PC's processor the human brain creates heat...more when it is under constant pressure. At current state it releases 60% of body heat alone through the head so imagine a brain working overtime at 7 times the speed....your nerves along with the skin would melt, chances are the matter would burn itself away.

    But say the heat issue has been remdied now you have the trouble of stimulus. As your IQ grows so must your senses in order to keep an equilibrium between the two. Imagine at 700 IQ hearing everything in a half a mile radius, seeing everything a few miles away with great detail and smelling every thing in your surrounding area....it is stimilus overload...the brain would have to process so much junk information that your sense pick up with astuse and deadly efficeincy..so muchthat you just can't tune out.

    Last but not least Lonliness....yes seems stupid but trust me, a great reson why someone at 700 IQ may kill themselves. Imagine being a caveman wh osuddenly understands everything. In a world of caves, at a time when language hasn't even developed yet you suddenly understand the concept of religion, physics, internet, how planes fly, TV, music, Radio but you have no one around to share it...no one t oeven begin comprehending the horrible amounts of knowledge you know and the things you have seen. That would be the fate of such a man in this day an age.....the man who has an IQ of 700....insanity will very likely drive the man to death.

    Sargentlard,
    irst I have no qualifications with respect to this topic but from what I do understand; two things:

    1 - The IQ system is actually distorted up around 200. That is for the test to measure something with any meaning the test has to be written and understood as to what the results mean.

    One can project somewhat above the intelligence of the formulators of the test but it is like a polynomial curve generator. You can generate a very accurate best fit curve over a number of data points but the very moment you predict beyond the end data point it gets wildly out of line. So the arbitrary figure of 700 is meaningless but understood to mean highly intelligent and likely untestable also.

    2 - I agree that heightened senses would likely improve ones IQ in that such a person would tend to process more data and find greater correlations than most but I don't agree that heightened senses are required to achieve extraordinary IQ. Hawkin being an example. In fact I have observed first hand how the blind gain increased senses of hearing and feel for example.

    In grade school they had a totally blind person come to our school and in his presentation he estimated the size of the room and the approximate number of people in the room.

    May be...armed with that much knowledge, one could easily become God in the cave country...with girls...girls...

    If your sun going nova and you are allowed to time travel to a safer time...what would you do?

    First off, let's drop the IQ terminology and stick to a generic term of 'superintelligent', since 'IQ of 700' is more or less nonsensical.

    What basis do you have for saying this? Seems completely absurd to me. "The matter would burn itself away"? While I'm no expert on neurology, I highly doubt that the brain of an average person would be that much less active. Not to mention that there's no reason to assume that the brain must work 7 times harder to be 7 times as intelligent.

    And what reason do you have to believe that there's a correlation between intelligence and the senses? The reason I can't see a few miles away is due to my eyes, not some limitation in my intelligence. Anyway, even if there is some sort of correlation, then what's to say you're unable to process the additional sensory information?

    I don't have any problem with conjectures, but you're presenting this information like it's established fact.

    Yes, i have heard of this.

    I was weren't i?..i apologize....i am no expert in this field (technically i shouldn't even be here seeing what i plan to do for a living)

    I am thinking an IQ of 700 (which isn't practical by any means) would consume much more nergy and produce much more heat and generally be under much more stress.

    Well this was based on another two assumptions of mine.

    1) With a higher IQ i am expecting higher sense development (not a few extra point bump but more like going from 150 to 700). I doubt at 700 i wouldn't have better hearing and vision.

    2) Another assumption that with honed senses and astute ability to gather stimulus ia mthinking there is too much to process...like a cosntant machine that never rests.

    But either way i find an IQ of 700 to be highly impractical.

    Well at 700 IQ that man would have to find the secret of immortality or near immortality to live that long.

    Or they'll think you are the devil and kill you.

    I doubt they would think you the devil. Someone with that much comprehension should have at least a basic grasp on human behavior and be able to manipulate the group in a way that is subtle and doesn't obviously set him apart from the pack.

    I don't know, human stupidity can do wonders. Anyway comprehension and manipulation are two different gifts. Someone with all knowledge may be too weak to play that in his/her favor to become a god.

    I think if someone was to "supposedly" have an IQ of 700, the entire method of measuring IQ's would instantly be changed, lessening the number.

    This happens all the time, and why there are so many different IQ test variations, as with each generation "intelligence" seems to rise, although the reality is more that there is more freedom of information for people to discover, especially in the wake of such things as the internet.

    The intelligence of those that have old school tuition of prior 1960's might have extremely high IQ's then but now they might find their knowledge outdated and surpassed. (Although that sounds like I'm saying they are obslete, I don't mean that at all)

    Again you could look to how people were at points in the past further than that, and you would see that what at the time someone would discover (i.e. Newtonian laws) are now things that are commonly understood.

    Of course it does need to be considered that knowledge only serves to buffer intelligence. All knowledge really is is a quantified memorization of facts. It says little of a persons faculties of logical and abstract reasoning. I think it is the aim of IQ tests to asses innate cognitive function. Which isn't too say that education, and the modes of learning presented in that education, don't play a role in encouraging or discouraging a particular intellegence trait. I think the largest role education plays in nurturing a persons intellegence is in the process, or mechanism, of learning more-so the knowledge itself.

    I'd be interested in how an extrordinarily intellegent human might cultivate the abilities of a savaant. I'd also be interested if there might yet be discovered much richer ways of nourishing the mind than traditional learning methods. Perhaps an absurdedly smart human might be blessed with insights for the cause.

    IQ tests are limited by their scope. You have to miss at least one question for the test to be able to estimate your intelligence. If you finish the test and get them all right, all it can tell you is that your IQ is above a certain level.

    Than 154 breakpoint for genius is one of the alternative IQ scales, perhaps the one that Mensa uses. On the Stanford-Binet scale, which is used in 99% of testing, 140 puts you in the 98th percentile (or is it the 99th?) and that's generally acknowledged as genius.

    In defense of the Mensa test, theirs is harder and therefore can measure intelligence that would go off the top end of the scale on the usual Stanford-Binet scoring system.

    But in ordinary discourse you should stick to Stanford-Binet terminology. To the average person if you start talking about an IQ of 154 they're thinking about somebody who could get out there with Einstein.

    hey man sorry to tell you but your an idiot and by the way ever tried talking to a box

    Put it all together. What do you have? Me. You can't even begin to comprehend what you have here. Memory? It's a little more than that. And you wonder why I am so violent. I do feel for you.
     
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