Evolution; religions from Monkeys

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Bishadi, Oct 18, 2008.

  1. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    Quick stop just to open up thinking and see how honest people really are.

    The oldest form of observing the intent or desire of 'after-life' is by identifying the remains and burial methods of the dead.

    Within the burial sites if the living knowingly placed articles for an after-life in faith, hope and belief then a belief can be verifiable by the burials of dead by the living.

    Neanderthal burials that predate homo sapien sharing the living buried them with food, weapons and items for the journey into the after-life, offers much to be observed

    So if we can find burials from monkey's sharing the 'belief' of an after-life then we can prove the thread opener as true.

    Wasn't that fun?
     
  2. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    Burying your dead at all if evidence of belief in either an afterlife or some other metaphysical conception. Most animals leave the dead to rot (and why wouldn't they? It's not entirely *obvious* that dead bodies should be placed in holes and covered over with soil).

    If I find monkey's systematically burying their dead. I'll kill them. I saw Planet of the Apes. I know how that turns out for us.
     
  3. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    LOL...:D

    When pigs fly.
     
  4. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Not necessarily. If you've ever been camping, then you know that a rotting corpse is going to make your campsite stink like hell. Not even to mention that it would attract scavengers of all kinds.

    If you were a Neanderthal, would you like to live in a camp with a stinking corpse ....and fighting off a bunch of scavengers?

    And while we can make all kinds of claims about it, I'm not convinced that even today a burial is indicative of belief in an afterlife. That tradition of burying a corpse before it starts to stink is pretty strong, and from ages past.

    Baron Max
     
  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Many animals bury their feces, and many predators bury killed prey for later consumption.
     
  6. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    the idea was to simply share that if the idea of an after life can be observed in the archeological evidence, then the conception of beliefs could be observed to exist before the written ideas of the current faiths.


    imagine if religions evolved from monkeys


    how do you think rome would address that?
     
  7. spidergoat alien lie form Valued Senior Member

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    Monkeys would have no way to pass on such a complex idea, since they do not have a proper language. They do morn their dead, as do elephants.
     
  8. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    Look at non-human animals and see which ones bury the dead. For those few others that do, like chimpanzees and elephants, they usually just throw leaves and twigs on the deceased, which is not likely to cover odor.

    Even if ancient hunter gatherers had a semi-permanent encampment that they did not want to leave, you have to ask, what were the odds of a human dying in the camp as opposed to outside it? Why were they only burying humans and not their dogs (there are not nearly as many dog burials that have been uncovered). If odor was the problem, why bury them with tools and other grave goods? Why wouldn't hunter gatherers have viewed scavengers as "free food"?
     
  9. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    enjoyed the thinking and approach.

    mankind at their best; thinking about 'it' and conveying ideas....

    that is what the thread was for...........

    it is easy to suggest that mankind is the creator of words and how we convey ideas... so to develop an observation of an after life or what occurs after we die from generation to generation would need a communication between individuals....

    with that in mind then we can assume that neanderthal at least has some form of cognant communication skills

    http://www.britarch.ac.uk/BA/ba66/feat1.shtml

    food for thought
     
  10. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    So how do they pass on the complex ideas of searching for food and water? And how do they pass on the complex ideas of what predators to avoid?

    Ahh, monkey see, monkey do, huh? :)

    Baron Max
     
  11. spidergoat alien lie form Valued Senior Member

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    Quite so.
     
  12. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    They don't usually have permanent/semi-permanent camps. Big difference.

    Grossly different! You've never been camping, have you?

    Dogs, even if they had hangers-on at that time, were not viewed as the same thing as the "humans". So likely they just carried them out and threw them into a gully for the scavengers.

    Not all of them did. And the graves with the tooks, etc might have just been that they didn't want or need them, so ....toss 'em in the hole in the ground.

    Scavengers are almost universally viewed by predators of the world as non-edible prey. Unless starving, most predators won't even kill scavengers.

    Too often, probably to have something to write about for their thesis or something, people will invent things that have little or no evidence to back it up. A couple of "graves" with a few stone tools in it ....ahh, let's invent a tale that early man had complex religious ideals of heaven populated with 72 virgins for each man! Nope, sorry, just writing about it don't make it true. :)

    Baron Max
     
  13. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Elephants are known to hide the bones of their dead in bushes or cover them with leaves.
     
  14. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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  15. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I think it's how the dead are buried that would tell one way or the other on this subject, correct? The simple act of burial doesn't imply religious belief.

    If we find monkey graves in which the deceased has been buried with its favorite butt-scratching branch, then we have some footing.
     
  16. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    a sense of humor but making sense too

    Perhaps each stick pulled from the site should be smelled :D

    So the idea that a neanderthal would put valuable items such as a spear or food pouch shares that perhaps them folk were allowing the deceased a chance to survive in the 'underworld' or what ever they called it.

    Then again perhaps the finding could simply be a landslide that buried the guy during a travel and to us it looks like a burial since having all his personal belongings.

    Again the idea of the thread is to share a method of 'possibly' opening a whole can of worms to the issue of where religions evolved from.

    As Darwin inspired a 'song' which could allow any to say;

    'why didn't I think of that?'
     

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