@Aqueous The implications when taken free of the emotional hubris you bring to it are quite correctly stated IMO. However where you fail to realise is that "any forcing of an opinion or morality" upon someone else against their will and freedom to choose will amount to war. [ rebelion or even terrorism] In the case of the post you where referring to: The poster has a belief system, that appears to serve him in a way that affords him joy and happiness. It is true from a more "aware" point of view this is tantamount to wrapping yourself up in the warm blanket of self delusion. It is not deliberate dishonesty, it is not a lie, or a state of laziness, it is not something that can be correctly and morally denigrated to foolishness. It is simply a person exercising his freedom to believe as he chooses to believe. Why this is happening is another completely different issue. IMO Most of the time it is because the education and social systems are attempting to force people to think and believe something and it is in the forcing that creates the problem. Instead of teaching and training proper critical thinking to facilitate the development of proper and self informed belief systems the "state" is polarised towards indoctrination. And it is that indoctrination that leads to the confrontaton seen in this thread. [whether scientific or religious indoctrination is irrelevant IMO] The education systems generally and globally, I believe, are gradually "evolving" so that the art of critical and clear thinking is held as paramount in the teaching of our children. The removal of indoctrination towards any systemic bias to allow our children to be the best thinkers they can be. The answer to claim that theory is fact is in itself a form of indoctrination because for all we know those evidencial claims may be very misleading due to the blinding effect that our own indoctrination has created to our perception. One of the the keys to all this is to demonstrated by this statement: Humility "The day I realised I was blind was the first day I could see" The "blinding" effect of ego nacassism [ vanity ] that we all suffer from to various degress, me included, needs to be addressed somehow. So it is always beneficial to presume self-blindness to the truth before making any strong committment to a personal belief. "The most immoral act one can perform is to attempt to force a morality or belief upon someone else" ~ thus the fundamental cause for all wars, all conflict and a loss of mutual respect. Regarding Darwins Finches: You ask whether the resultant theory Darwin proposed is well founded. Imo Absolutely, it is well founded and quite rational but it is definitely not fact and it is definitely not the only factor at play in evolution. It is merely the result of a rather extraordinary insight of a man working with in the limitations of his own mind and creativity. The same applies to Albert Eintien or any "heroic" thinker. Who knows tomorrrow someone will come up with a better view... There appears no doubt though that the logic of natural selection is a significant logic and certainly worthy of all to seriously consider but only if they choose to do so. As mentioned in an earlier post all these conflicts can be resolved if one redefines the subjects of the arguement properly. And ask: Does the conflict or arguement match what is actually observed? Are we arguing from incorrect definitions to begin with. and so on... and there is more than enough evidence of intelligent evolution [ by natural design ] to keep looking for better answers.