Evolution is wack;God is the only way that makes sense! - Part 2

What about those people who are the victims?

 

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Religious fanatics should not be allowed to burn witches at the stake because it is ethically and morally wrong. It is wrong to butcher and commit violence in the name of religion. It it better to let people debate these issues.

As for the hell and damnation issue, the problem of hell has been addressed. If you're worried about it, this is a good article to read.

What victims are not covered by these two categories?

 

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why would you think that... if it was omnipotent. Isn't that a contradiction to say that an omnipotent being would not have self restraint/ discipline/ control

 

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reminds me of the discussion about how a USA President retires from office and all he wants to do in his retirement is make hamburgers and fries for Hungry Jacks...
Is he allowed to do what he wants to do?
Who is stopping him from doing it?
If he was omnipotent and damn clever what would stop him from say, sweeping the floor [re: movie Bruce almighty] or being a window cleaner or even your regular boring accountant... nothing of course.

[video=youtube;QAK5sJ77J78]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAK5sJ77J78[/video]
and a sense of wacky humor to boot!

 

All the other ones? Religion is a far from benign force. Faith itself is a damaging ideal, since it values belief without evidence. The side effects include global warming and Republican politicians.

 

You raise an interesting point, that being freewill.

One of the greatest issues regarding this is that which prevents God from taking benefit from his creation due to the fact that his mere presense woud negate the fundamental of freewill.
However if god was so endowed with incredible self restraint could he indeed take benefit with out compromising the state of free will play at any given moment?
Could he play chess and win only according to intelligence and skill or would he be continuously wondering if he was somehow "cheating"?
Could he go to a cassino and place a bet on a roulette wheel and suffer the exact same odds as every one else? Or would he be in a state of Midas touch - where everything turns to boring Gold.?
If he had the self restraint/ discipline to manage his own power of influence would he not be able to participate in any way he so chose to do so?

 

the price of freewill.... and an automated system of growth and evolution, would be to stand back and let it rip [ from the begining to the end ] sound a bit like a typical human state of apathy doesn't it?
and why couldn't a God be apathetic when most victims are created by other people slowly learning how to NOT abuse their power of freewill?

 

Personally I see no reason to discount the notion of a God that created evolution - that Darwin happens to work out.... If I was God I would say: "Go for it Charles... go for it!!!"
then smugly think to myself: "The more you learn about the universe the more you learn about me" -a vain God... why not?

I have often wondered why people, including religious devotees consider the notion of God to be in some sort or sub-human state... possibly it is our ego centric natures at work. [pride and arrogance]
surely a God would be superior to his own creation?

 

I wasn't even talking about the victims of God (there aren't any), just the victims of religion.

 

That's not beyond the evidence (if the idea of God were an intellectually coherent one), but it begs the question, is an absentee landlord someone I want to worship?

 

well uhm you worship yourself don't you? You are self serving aren't you? Who are you really other than the name someone gave you at birth?
Nay! If this God exists he is is damn clever....[chuckle]

 

That's because you're not looking. I didn't realize you were a theist (or perhaps deist), but now that I know you are, the motivation behind your ridiculous theories is clear. To begin with, there's no reason to assume that a god created evolution. There's no evidence for it at all, and everything we know about religion shows that it was a man-made invention, so to begin with the premise that a god is at the beginning is stupid.There's absolutely no reason to do so.

Again, because you'd have to assume that this god is basically a human, with human traits and characteristics. Why do you do that?

I have often wondered why people, including religious devotees consider the notion of God to be in some sort or sub-human state... possibly it is our ego centric natures at work. [pride and arrogance]
surely a God would be superior to his own creation?[/QUOTE]

I can't think of an instance in which the concept of God is considered to be sub-human. The monotheistic faiths view God as superhuman, a kind of being which humans are made in the image of but are lesser than. This is the standard model of religious belief. I have no idea where you get the idea that believers view their god as less than themselves.

The real problem is that you imagine a god that is for some reason just like humans. Why do you do this? Talk about egocentrism! You're going on about a god that would think like you do. You must have a high opinion of yourself.

 

What I am suggesting is that in abstraction you consider that the universe and everything to do with it, including evolution, IS the evidence you talk of not having.

 

In other words, take it on faith.

No thank you.

 

nope not at all... just look at the evidence as you do every day of your life...

any ways... just abstraction... nothing to believe nor anything to have faith in...

 

To the religious the evidence is every where, to science it is no where... a rather interesting dichotomy if ever there was one...

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and btw I have already indicated a number of times what theism I personally trend towards... Pantheism...

 

I dunno about that. I still think that "God said, "Let there be light!"", sounds an awful lot like the big bang.

From another point of view, who the heck wants their religion to be entrenched in scientific evidence? Is science a religion? How boring! I want a religion that enriches our lives, enhances our culture, creates bonds between me and my fellow man (person). I want a religion that upholds a standard of ethics and morals (even if that standard has to evolve and improve). When I see something shocking and astonishing, I like to say, "Oh My God!!!!" I like the interaction with occult and paranormal phenomena; it makes life more enjoyable and more excititing.

I like the fact that quantum randomeness and quantum uncertainty are doorways into our universe that God, or some other power, might use to touch our lives. What is wrong with that?

 

That's not at all what you're suggesting. You're suggesting that we just assume the universe is evidence for a god. Why would we possibly do that? What reason do we have to do that?

Nonsense. You're advocating this.

 

It doesn't sound anything like the Big Bang. The universe was too hot for light to shine for its first 300,000 years.

No one is advocating science as a replacement for religion. However, reason and logic certainly can be, because they actually help us discover the truths that religion can only lie about. I mean, what's more beautiful: a burning bush, or the Horsehead Nebula? What's more amazing, the concept of a bearded man in a cloud, or the idea that the universe has existed for billions of years? What's more meaningful, the idea that god chose a specific group of illiterate desert-dwellers to be the proponents of blood sacrifices and hatred in its name, or the genome project, which shows us all how superficial our racial differences are? Is it preferable to believe that animals are our subordinates, or that they're our cousins?

The real world is infinitely more sublime and amazing than anything offered up in an ancient holy book. Natural human interaction has built a better moral foundation than religion ever has. You want meaning to life? Find a vocation. Give to a charity and see if you can not feel like you serve a purpose. Have sex and tell me passion and love requires faith. The deepest, most profound moments of transcendence come in clear-minded meditation, not ruminating on some Bronze Age deity. The real world is awesome, and so much more so than the archaic, paranoid, simple-minded nonsense found in religion.

It's stupid, for one. It's useless, for another. There's noting right with it.

 

well it's mere existance is evidence of something I guess.....call it God or call it the universe ...doesn't matter