Evolution belief in America

Women are not obliged to be responsible for the economic maintenance of their children or share their personal wealth (including earnings) with their spouses. Unlike the men, who are obligated to provide for wives and children and whose wealth is "family property"

It does not mean they don't either

 

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you think women should be subservient to men?, you dont believe in equal rights for women?.


peace.

 

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No, but science still doesn't disprove god since it 'presumes' god does not exist.

It hasn't always been like this of course. Science was hugely stimulated by religion for most of its history. Studying nature was one of the ways to get closer to god, another one was to join the clergy.

In this discussion though we should make a clear distinction between what we personally believe and what science or god is.

I may believe that god does not exist, and at the same time I know that science cannot disprove god because it presumes the non-existence of god. And at the same time I know that all the scientific data we have collected so far opposes all creationist theories known in the world, even the one: 'we don't know how he[sic] did it.

Hence we should make caution here and not turn this into a yes/no debate where the answer yes or no is not an answer to a real question.

Evolution belief in America is a sociological problem, not a scientific one.

The phrasing of the poll shows it has nothing to do with science.

Current scientific dogma does not disprove the existence of god.

(and god does not exist

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)

 

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Heh, did not even see that.

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There are no rules for subservience of women, merely an acknowledgment that they are physically vulnerable and should be protected.

As for equal rights, there is a lot of lip service in that regard in all societies; I appreciate the ability and freedom to do what I want and thats not against Islam.

 

It's not as if women are equal in Christianity either.

 

what if something in islam is obviously wrong, would you follow it just because it is part of islam,

and in hindsight of your reply, i class wrong as something that hinders another person, or something that you know deep down is not right.

do you think a man having 4 wives is wrong?, if not would you say a woman having 4 husbands is ok?.


peace.

 

i dont think women are equal in any society 100%, although in the west regarding the law, women are actualy above men nowdays. like if a women attacked a man and the man beat her down in defence, the man would be charged with assualt and most likely locked up.

or when divorce occurs women get the better deal, along with women getting to take the child in most cases.


which is totaly wrong, women want equal rights, but usualy the mainstream only want the good rights not the bad ones.

peace.

 

:bugeye: What are "bad rights"? :bugeye:

 

Does it say a man should have four wives? Do you see Muslim men with four wives? Even in Saudi Arabia (which is full of weirdos), its not common.

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Its always upto a woman to say no; no different from a woman having an affair/children with a married man. What for example, do you think of women who agree to marry a married man? Or do they have no complicity in this? :shrug:

The marriage to four women, all of whom must be treated equally is a way to provide protection for war widows and their children, not a sanction for unbridled lust.

 

so why in some islamic countries do you hear of men legally allowed to marry 4 women?, but you never hear of women having 4 husbands?.

peace.

 

There are men in India who are legally married to more than one woman. And they are not even Muslims. And having more than one wife is not de riguer in Muslim men either, not as much as having extre-marital sex is in non-Muslim men.

As for women, I doubt any woman would opt for more than one husband, but Muslim women can marry and divorce and remarry with ease, if they so wish. I know many who have done so.

 

"In Islam, polygamy is allowed, with the specific limitation that men can only have up to four wives at any one time. However, the Qur'an specifically states that men who choose this route must deal with their wives as fairly as possible, doing everything that they can to spend equal amounts of time, money on each one of them. Although many Muslim countries still retain traditional Islamic law which permits polygamy, certain elements within Islam challenge its acceptability. For example, polygamy is prohibited by law in Turkey, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Syria, and Lebanon. In Pakistan, if the first wife has not officially given her permission for the second marriage, it is not considered legal and the husband will end up in jail."

Wikipedia.

 

Exactly, the consent of both the first wife and other wife is required. No priest should conduct a marriage where all parties have not consented. And its not easy to get married when you are already married either (unless the priest is corrupt).

 

did you read it properly?, thats only in pakistan, the rest of the islamic nations do not require the consent of the first wife.

peace.

 

Did they say that? AFAIK, all marriages require consent, and in case of a second marriage the man should take consent from the first wife. In any case, he still needs consent from the second. Frankly it is more surprising to me that a woman would marry a married man than that he requires the consent of the first.

 

well, according to that article on islamic polygamy, it only requires the consent of the first wife in pakistan. and regardless of seperate state laws, the Quran itself states that a man can have up to four wives, and mentions nothing of censent fromt he furst wife. the quran also does not permit women to have 4 husbands.

do you justify men having 4 wives but women not being allowed the same rights?.

peace.

 

And there could of course never be any hidden coercion in getting that consent.

Come'on. If a woman did anything remotely like asking for a second husband, we know what would happen to her.

Often these marriages happen with much much younger women whose consent is also very questionable.

And at about this point in discussions it often seems to shift suddenly to women in the west. I am quite critical of many things in the WEst. I do not have to choose between the horrible way women are treated in either culture.

 

?? The Quran also says it is the man's responsibility to honor women and look after them. And marriage should be with consent.

You do realise the second wife has to consent to the marriage?

You act like all Muslims have four wives. Apparently the fact that most don't even have two escapes you.

As a woman, if I were living in Iraq right now, where most men are being killed, what would my choices be? (Any country in fact where there is a war and most men are dying on the field?)

Its a practical consideration that provides economic consideration for women and their children and prevents them from being exploited or used. Its most certainly not an injunction.

 

I think women are prone to abuse and exploitation everywhere.Which is why I endorse education of women, so they are aware of their rights. And its not unusual for women to refuse marriage either. Try living 5 years in Saudi Arabia (as I did) before making pronouncements.

 

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I thought this discussion was about "Evolution belief in America" :shrug: