Evil Indian/Hindu Caste System

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by duendy, Apr 15, 2006.

  1. redindica Registered Member

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    And more....this focuses on "Dalit Muslims"
    Getting a bit more complext isnt it duendy??? Life isnt black and white you know...not all Muslims are suicide bombers and not all Dalits are Hindu......

    I'l have a post on the way Christian Dalits are being treated by the Christian community later....it's a lovely day and I'm going to sun myself...untill then.....peace!!!

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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2006
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  3. Gustav Banned Banned

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    i say!
    are dalit bitches hot and shit?

    thanks
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Why? did you sprain your hand?
     
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  7. Gustav Banned Banned

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    why yes!
    indeed i did

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  8. I don't know It's the pun police, run! Registered Senior Member

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    - So am I, and there's nothing unrealistic about my post

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  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    This could go on forever

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    Let us agree to disagree

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  10. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    The caste system owes its heritage to divisions of occupation or varna - varna is described in the vedas as symptomised by guna (quality) and karma (activity) as opposed to janma (birth) - its not that the caste system is wrong - its that a caste system based upon birth, as opposed to quality and activity is wrong
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2006
  11. I don't know It's the pun police, run! Registered Senior Member

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    We weren't really disagreeing, I was just being captious

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    Seriously, though: The caste system still exists, and imo it shouldn't.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yes of course; but if you explore the modern day casteism, you'll discover it has more to do with economic exploitation and the reservation system utilized by the Indian government to help with the "upliftment of the downtrodden" which has conferred benefits on "lower caste" people. This is viewed with resentment by those "upper caste" people who inspite of better education or merit find themselves on the fringes of an uncertain job market. The resultant resentments are of course expressed through caste wars. If you work in a private company, however, where merit is more important, such "casteism" is rarely encountered. In many cases, even where there is no casteism it is viewed as such by individuals who may feel defensive about their position. e.g. I know an instance of an airline pilot who got into a national airline through the scheduled caste reservation. He continually did poorly at his simulations and needed many trials in order to clear the grade. Honestly, would you want someone like that flying you across the Atlantic? When other pilots protested against his clearing the grade, that pilot claimed he was being discriminated against.

    Its a very complex issue; I don't doubt that there are rural pockets in India where the caste system is a way of life, but such individuals also follow the village form of government and are less likely to go up in arms against each other. There may be economic exploitation but it is related more to the educational shortcomings than to the "evils" of the caste system.
     
  13. redindica Registered Member

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    All women are hot..dalit or not.....

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  14. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    But not all men fry in their hormones

    A brahmana is supposed to be qualified by samo, damas, tapah, saucam etc, peacefulness, self control, austerity, cleanliness etc

    This is the distinction between one class of person and another
     
  15. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Xerxes:If we try to force India out of the caste system, it will destroy their culture. What India really needs is a slow evolution of their values, not to become a mirror image of the we

    I think India is already on the road towards change and its happening internally among their intellectuals, writers, artists and politicians. The caste system is very strong and difficult to break so of course the change will be slow. Its not easy for a caste conscious person to accept an untouchable as an equal. Now personally I think the reincarnation nonsense is a convenient ruse used to ensure wealth and access to education stays within a particular group. Since all brahmins are definitely not 'white' nor 'aryan' I wouldn't say its equivalent is racism but more a form of classism. Anyway even though there has been access given to untouchables so they can enter university and perhaps will eventually secure a financial base I don't think they will ever be thought well of by other Hindus. Christian Indians love the untouchables and vice verse because it rids them of the caste thing. How can one be an untouchable if one is no longer Hindu? Nevertheless it hasn't changed how they are perceived. I do agree with you on one note, since there is enough of a debate among Hindu's about this issue its really their business and not ours. I mean what are we supposed to do air drop pamphlets? Making caste illegal won't change the culture.
     
  16. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Actually all societies have a caste system - in other words all societies have an intelligent class (brahmana) martial class (ksatriya) mercantile class (vaisya) and labourer class (sudra) - the solution is not to abolish a caste system but to have a properly functioning one - for instance if you try to artificially raise evryone to the platform of a brahmana there will be chaos and if you try to artifically bring everyone down to the platform of a sudra (like communism) it will also fail. Birth can indicate a propensity for a class designation (like the son of a high court judge has an increased potential to become a high court judge) but ultimately one looks at qualification (the son of a high court judge doesn't actually become a high court judge until he is properly qualified).

    Otherwise if you run around trying to bring the lowest person to the highest position or the highest person to the lowest position you disturb the natural order of things and are just operating on the same principle general principle, namely birth as an indication of what one deserves / doesn't deserve in life- even the hindu scriptures clearly state that it is quality (guna) and activity (karma) that establishes social designation (varna) as opposed to birth (janma)
     
  17. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    All societies don't design their caste system from an idea of predestination through birth into a certain caste. In other words one sibling from the same family can decide to become a doctor because he not only desires the profession but has the intellectual capacity to reach the goal. His brother becomes a fireman because he has always liked fireman. The other brother becomes a wanderer doing this and that until he finds his own way. Very different than using a myth to decide the fate of others (but you wouldnt know better would you).

    The caste system in India is a social construct designed to keep wealth, education and access within strict social lines but that doesnt make it right and it certainly wasnt dictated by the divine. In any case this issue has been on the minds of India's intelligencia for a long time and in time this too shall alter itself.

    Hey why don't you answer the questions posted in the veggie section?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2006
  18. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    Time-honoured phrase used by the wealthy and the powerful throughout history to keep those insolent, huddled masses in their proper place.
     
  19. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Well put a fitter and turner in the position of the president, put the the president in the position of a ballet dance, put a ballet dancer in charge of a multi billion dollar supermarket chain, and put a multi billion dollar supermarket chain manager in the position of a fitter and turner and see if the picture doesn't equal to something like a disturbance of the natural order of things.
     
  20. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    LG has the vedas and upanishad stunted your thinking? We don't 'put' people anywhere.
     
  21. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Neither does india - my point was that the system has been corrupted by the notion of birth as an automatic qualification when the scriptures declare it is more a case of quality and activity.

    I agree, vedic scrpture also states the same thing - intellectual capacity means guna, quality

    This is all quality and activity

    I don't see what you are contending - my previou s post is in complete alignment with yours - maybe I didn't explain it properly (its my weakness as an academic to sometimes render simple concepts incomprehensible

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    )

    If a person is not qualified, whether they take birth in a high or low family - you don't solve the problem of social chaos by reserving positions for people of low birth just as you don't solve the problem by reserving them for people of high birth - you solve the problem by reserving them for qualified persons - now a person who takes birth in a high family may start out with an advantage (if their father is a high court judge they may more readily absorb the position of a high courst judge) but that is not an automatic qualification - it as opportunity to develop the right qualifications - but after al is said and done in the way of birth you are left with the examination of a persons qualification which stands independent of their birth as either low or high.

    I'm getting there - please be patient its been a busy day

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  22. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    So actors, for instance, should forget about any idea of ever becoming president (hmmm.. well, actually..)? You underestimate our adaptability.
     
  23. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    If you are in agreement then we agree but I didn't pick that up in your post perhaps because you use religious text to explain your beliefs instead of just expalining your personal point of view.

    LG: If a person is not qualified, whether they take birth in a high or low family - you don't solve the problem of social chaos by reserving positions for people of low birth just as you don't solve the problem by reserving them for people of high birth - you solve the problem by reserving them for qualified persons -

    I agee up to a point. The methods used in India are the same as affirmative action in the States-you know the idea of reserving positions for minorities. Well affirmative action worked, it did give people access the trouble is knowing when those measures are no longer necessary. I am not sure if its no longer necessary in India.
     

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