Everyday racism

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by paddoboy, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Moderator note: This thread is a split from the following original thread on a different topic:

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/everyday-sexism.163836/

    ---


    I think I have explained that...love was never meant to be an insulting term, nigger always was. But I also see that at this stage we must beg to differ.
    The case I used, admittedly, the question are you married was not asked. he simply asked [not exactly sure what] but words to the effect of inquiring about his wife, and then the reply and eventual laughing it off.
    It's not a perfect world billvon and as much as we would like to make it so, probably never will be.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2020
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    Depends on the person, level of familiarity, the situation at hand.

    It can also be seen to be condescending.

    You do understand this, yes?

    And you take the folksy larrikin schtick to the point of caricature.

    Maybe it's a Sydney thing to hide their complex of superiority?

    Do you have a link to this issue with schools and Christmas and this apparently being offensive to Muslims?

    You also missed the part in the article that details how it's complicated.

    You should read your link from the part where it says "But it's not that simple"..

    Did you read what you linked?

    That said, the older you are, the whiter you are, the male-r, the poorer and less educated, the more likely you are to feel strongly about this, the data shows.

    Interesting, no?

    So why do you keep saying it and using the term?

    You are a white Australian male, correct?

    Given the lineage, the irony of your complaint cannot escape you.. Surely?
     
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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Correct
    It does

    I call stuff as I see it

    If you see something ironic in it, that's you

    Welcome to explain and I will listen

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    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, not to me it doesn't, and as yet I have not met anyone who has seen it that way.
    That sounds condescending.
    Is that right?

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    more condescending from you?
    Nup, just your uninformed guess.
    Do I need one? It was and has been suggested by councils around the place, but because of the stupidity and outrage from normal people, quickly swept under the carpet again by the PC brigade.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/29/cancel-christmas-muslims-traditions-islamic
    Sure I read it all, and none of it invalidates the part I quoted.

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    Because it's part of the vocabulary and is a word that was not invented to offend.


    While we are at it....again, went up to the bank a couple of days ago, and was ushered towards a pretty [is that sexist?] female teller around 45 ish, who asked, "What can I help you with Sir" I had a large wad of cash with me, that was the deposit for some home improvements, and to be transferred to another bank. After I informed her of what I was trying to do, she then explained in detail that I was proceeding the wrong way and should approach the bank which was identified by the account number [which she new but I didn't]
    and put it in that account. My reply, "gee thanks Love, you're a bloody Angel!" Her reaction, "why thank youuuuuu kind Sir, nice to be of assistance and you can come back here anytime!'" all said while happily laughing and in jocular fashion.
    Just more confirmation of certain actions/words being the norm and without a skerrick of sexism, racism or any other underhanded insulting meaning/s.
     
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I'm probably slightly left of the political spectrum, and obviously see much of political correctness is correct and desirable. By the same token, some of it is extreme stupidity as per the muslim/Xmas thingy and the use of certain words in everyday banter. My Son who was leaning over my shoulder just reminded me of another that some extreme PC converts may see fit to pick me up on.
    Fijians are notoriously, generally always late, my Mrs being a great example of that. If we are going out somewhere, as usual, I'm always ready on time, while she is still fussing about. My general comment.. Bloody Fijians!! or Bloody Fiji time! [hope that's not too blokey for some here.

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    Even in Fiji, if you are going to meet someone, somewhere, sometime, they have a saying "Fiji Time" meaning anything around the appointed meeting time, and it can be frustrating for someone from Australia who is always on time.
    Although now in a modern society, that perception is changing somewhat...
    https://www.changefactory.com.au/our-thinking/articles/fiji-time-it-s-no-laughing-matter/
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02757206.2018.1445624
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,543
    Just a quick comment on that rather paltry remark...
    I yam what I yam, and you can take it or leave it!

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    But if I were to comment on my own style of banter, I would say its similar to our second greatest PM?
     
  10. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    The Australian BLM movement is powered by Indigenous Australians.

    For you, a white Australian male, to whine and to declare that they (Australia's BLM) was set up to "loot and plunder" is, to put it bluntly, obscene.

    Given Indigenous death in custody, the continued disregard for their rights, and the history of looting and plundering of their land, culture, identity by white and predominately male Australians, do you really think your whining was appropriate? Something something about your white entitlement goes here, I suppose.

    You deliberately choose to disregard how people feel and instead feel that foisting yourself on others uninvited should be respected and protected.

    It's about respecting others. You should try it some time.

    "Sorry, not to me it doesn't" mate!

    Aw maaaayytteee.. Come on now! Why you being such a bloody fucking wuss, mate?

    Stop fucking whingeing and grow a pair, mate!

    What's the matter? Don't like it when you are treated as you treat others?

    I disagree.

    You made the claim:

    "we have had movements and suggestions schools should not mention Christmas and rather talk of holiday time so as not to offend Muslims"​

    The article you linked is about a reaction to a fake story that was blown out of proportion in responses to it.

    You don't see yourself in what you quoted?

    I was talking about "nigger".

    You admit it's designed to offend. But you keep repeating it.

    Why do you do that?

    Are you aware that the manner in which you keep giving us these little stories about how women are around you just makes you look, well, weird,right?

    It's a constant thing with you. It's your go to to attempt to excuse your own at times creepy behaviour (such as when you admitted to lewd suggestions to the poor girl who worked in a supermarket and crowing how she laughed it off, while ignoring she was not actually allowed to call you a creep or pervert)..

    Not to mention you just let us know that you don't know how to bank perhaps?

    I mean, what is the point of this story? She called you "Sir"? Would you have been more comfortable if she'd said "Oi, dickhead, it's over there"?

    Carrying on to Part II of the story:

    While ignoring she could not tell you to not do that or speak to her that way..

    That's what you don't seem to understand.

    She responded to you as she is required to respond to you. She's still required to call you "Sir". She is still required to smile through it. She is still required to be polite to you. If she does not, she will either be reprimanded or possibly be out of a job.

    Do you understand that part now? You foist your at times creepy behaviour on women while they are working and then crow about how they smile back at you and thank you, without considering that they are not actually allowed to tell you to fuck off for being a creep.

    Which was based on a fake story, probably picked up by the likes of Pauline Hanson and the other morons in her party and spread far and wide, scare campaigns often originate from lies and spread by dumb people to even dumber people who are are gullible enough to believe it.

    The right wing MAGA hat wearing morons in the US is a prime example of that.

    Ya.. Amongst people you know.

    You mean the dude who cheated on his wife repeatedly and who told his own daughter to not report the man who raped her multiple times as it would affect his political chances..?

    Great person to imitate!
     
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    13,077
    Copycat but to be clear the Australian version BLM is NOT the one set up to loot and plunder. That applies to the American version
    Not a whine, observation of what is occurring

    Good going, disrespect someone you know nothing about

    As a Registered Nurse for 40+ years and a good few of those as a Midwife I have yet to come across a black life, or yellow, green, or white or rainbow

    And it appears that these so called black lives are select black lives ie only those lost by being taken by white police and then only male

    Also it seems so called black lives didn't matter until ½ way through 2013

    I'm sure I was hearing numerous news items about black gangs, drugs decimating particular black neighbourhoods

    Don't recall a BLM movement

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  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    That's not true and just your own warped and ignorant perception on things.
    I do, all the time, unless confronted by nonsense that neutralises that respect.
    Your entitled to your opinion, but I'm pretty sure I have right on my side.

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    Nothing's the matter at all, other then you getting rather excited.
    Disagree all you like, my statement stands.
    No, I made a statement based on more then one news reports over at least two nights. Obviously the overwhelming backlash, had such knee jerk reactions, they were quickly swept under the carpet.
    Not at all...it certainly did not refer to all old bastards, and specified all age groups. I posted the basis of the article.
    I never use the word, and don't believe I ever have. The post where I did mention it, was in reply to another who raised it. You should do your research properly and stop making falsified allegations based on your bias.

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    You think so? Na not at all........That most recent incident like the rest of the examples I have given, supports fully my stance on the matter, and the extreme some people go to with PC.

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    Bells, you go ahead and provoke and see it as you like. I'm telling you, you are wrong, as my many examples every day of the week support.
    Yes that was the case...I'm not completely up with transferring money between banks, and not completely happy with talking to machines. You found me out Bells!!!

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    Wow!

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    take it easy Bells!!!
    But to answer your questions the recent story was to re-enforce the fact that I am correct, along with the rest of the encounters. And if she had replied as you have fabricated, I probably would have said "fuck you arsehole", and seen the manager.
    I was actually going to see the manager anyway [still might] and compliment her good sportsmanship and over the top service....still might actually.

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    Bells you can surmise, fabricate and make up whatever you like.
    My reasonable actions are just that, the same has hers...perhaps its yours that need to be questioned?
    ps: It wasn't a smile Bells, it was a hearty laugh, and a long drawn out thank youuuu!!
    It was actual news reports with regards to council ideas that never ever eventuated and never were going to eventuate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Nice try Bells....you raised your thoughts [among your other thoughts] about my larrikinism and speech and I was giving an example of that speech and accent.
    And yes, he is the second best PM we have had, despite his personal life. And of course there was another woman involved, a responsible adult woman. Gough of course was our number one.
    Anything more?
    ps: Yes, I was always a bit of a larrikin growing up and still am in many respects...Probably why I have so many friends of different persuasions, nationalities, age, etc short sheeting people [men and women] rolling up wet brown paper in the shape of a turd and dropping it in the middle of a dance floor was another!

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    dropping dummy flies in a mate's schooner was another. Ahh, the memories!!
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    The American version was largely peaceful.

    93% of BLM protests were actually peaceful [https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/]

    So where are you getting the information that they were created to "loot and plunder"?

    Clearly not.

    Refer to the link above.

    That's nice.

    I wasn't actually talking to you..

    So this:

    Is what exactly?

    Posturing?

    And coming across like a bit of a bigot in the process...

    Your words and actions suggest otherwise.

    Particularly on this website.

    Not really no.

    You are one of the most offensive, abusive people on this site. You openly tout how you sexually harass women in public and crow about it.

    Pretty sure you don't.

    Why do you say that?

    You do this often as well.. Suggest that people are getting excited or emotional, etc as a ridiculous tactic.

    It follows the pattern, I suppose.

    And yet you can't actually prove it. Instead you linked a story that was discussing how it was based on a fake story.

    Talk about a knee jerk reaction!

    Ah, that lack of self awareness.

    You don't use the word. But you keep repeating it in responses to others.

    And the emoticons begin!

    It is a set pattern with you. It's your go to. It is what you try to hide behind. Much like a racist tries to declare they have black friends. You, the misogynist, tries to portray how much women just love you.

    My point still stands.

    And here we have it.

    She has no choice but to be polite, smile and call you Sir and say thank you. It may not mean she likes it.

    If she does not smile or respond as you expect her to respond, you complain to the manager.

    When you approach people in service jobs, like a bank teller or a person working in a supermarket, you have the power in that dynamic. They do not. So you act like a creep or make obscene suggestive remarks to a young supermarket clerk, she has to smile back at you, chuckle and not be rude to you. She has no choice. She's not smiling because she likes it. She's smiling because if she does not, she could be out of a job.

    And that is what you keep refusing to understand.

    Not everyone likes or appreciates that kind of behaviour and you refuse to be respectful to them by not putting them in that position.

    Refer to above.

    She has no choice but to respond this way. If she does not, she risks losing her job.

    Power relations are visible in hierarchical workplace relations. But they are invisible in many customer-worker encounters because qualities like deference, availability and friendliness are seen as an essential part of the job.
    [https://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2016/not-asking-for-it/]

    You really should read what you link.

    I'm sure the East Timorese would beg to differ.

    No one gives a shit, dude.
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Since you asked so nicely for evidence of my original claim Bells...
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-17/christmas-traditions-politically-correct-brigade/8128284

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ners-Sydney-torn-omitting-word-Christmas.html


    https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=2856
    "It was one of those extremely rare moments when I found myself agreeing with John Howard. Asked what he thought of Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore's reported plans to make Sydney's Christmas celebrations low-key and generic, the Prime Minister slammed them as "silly", "ridiculous" and "political correctness from central casting".

    Out of sensitivity for a multicultural society, Moore was reported to have said she did not want the celebrations "to push any one religious belief".

    In fact, Moore had said nothing of the sort. Quite the contrary: The council is increasing its Christmas celebration spending this year by 50 per cent. The words were spoken by Jeff Fisher, chief executive of fast-food chain Oporto following news that the chain had banned a nativity display from its franchise in Hornsby in northern Sydney. Media had put the words in the wrong mouth, but Howard's assessment of them remained true".

    the article concludes.....
    "This is where political correctness loses the plot: What purports to inspire tolerance instead inspires hostility and intolerance. Diverse, vibrant and tolerant societies are created by allowing eclectic cultural and religious expressions, celebrations included, to flourish. You don't achieve that by surrendering a culture, replacing it with bland meaninglessness.

    Denying the Christianity in Christmas or, worse, doing away with it altogether helps no one. This is not multiculturalism. It is anti-culturalism".
    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    Now while I do need to cringe somewhat in agreeing with the likes of Dutton and Howard on this issue, it is an example of what I said earlier and what you asked proof for.
    Thankfully, as far as I know, all was rectified in favour of normality and tradition.
    When I am in Fiji, which has been often, I abide by the laws, traditions and customs of Fiji, without question or second thought. That includes many things, many religious, many traditional Fijian culture and other things not normally done at home.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,642
    I find it funny that you say "well of COURSE when people use the term 'boy' they are being racist, but the way I use language . . . that's completely different!"
    It's happened dozens of times.
    "Women should be allowed to vote"
    "Blacks should be free"
    "Women should be able to own land"
    "Black people should be able to marry white people"
    "Gay people should be able to marry"
    "You shouldn't call black people 'nigger' or 'boy' "

    Every single time that happened, the people saying those things were accused of being extremists, trying to force their disgusting beliefs down everyone's throat. I for one am glad those people who took PC way too far, trying to force their extreme beliefs onto society . . . succeeded. I am proud to be one of them.
     
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  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Do you ever laugh at yourself billvon? I often refer to myself and my old school mates that are left as boys or even old bastards.
    Were they??all trying to force their beliefs down others throats? I suggest most all of what you list was welcome by the greater majority. I'm not criticising PC per se...I'm criticising the excesses.
    I will question one of your PC lists...number 2: All men should be free.
     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,543
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,642
    All the time. It's an old skydiving tradition to get on an aircraft, yell "Hey asshole!" and have everyone reply "WHAT?"

    But we don't do it when students are on the aircraft. Because they might not be OK with that.
    Abso-fing-lutely. When the Supreme Court handed down its decision that legalized interracial marriage, fewer than 25% of Americans supported that. 16 states still had laws against it on the books, and attempts to repeal them via referendum regularly failed. The Supreme Court "forced interracial marriage down people's throat." I am glad they did.
     
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,475
    as/re racist
    (endemic racism?)
    shortly after moving to Iowa:
    I had to register my children at the local grade school
    on the form was the question;
    Race
    To which I responded
    "Human"

    imho
    officially,
    a persons sex or race of religion or political affiliation
    should be unimportant
     
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    13,077
    Which is totally correct but I am sure would fly over the heads of some ie those who pretend there are more than 70+ genders or you can be age fluid

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  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Fantasy yields to power.

    Pretending that things are as they should be hands power to the already powerful, and betrays the rest.

    Political affiliation with a fascist movement is going to be important, whether anyone wants it to be or not. That's a history lesson every American is supposed to have learned in school.

    Race is a sociological construction with political attributes and implications - "human" is not a race. Pretending otherwise is how one ends up governed by the likes of Steve King, Joni Ernst, and Chuck Grassley.
     
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,502
    Are these people that you refer to the same as those who use the term "white male" with no comprehension that it is both sexist and racist and fail to recognise that they use the term in a hateful manner ( evidence available within this thead) which is of course consistent with their hypocritical judgemental out of touch approach to anything they have on their trivial list of nit picking.

    The same ones who bully and abuse old people with out any recognition that their behaviour is deplorable, the same ones who reject your personal observation of an event if it does not fit with their predictions of doom and gloom...well I say just ignore them as discussion is beyond them and hate controls all their action..they love to hate..its all they have.. hate.

    All they can do is huddle together and believe their own hateful propaganda...screw them..air theives.

    I hope you are well..I have been crook but had time to reflect upon the futility of engagement with the haters, as I call them now, on this site, science site balony...anyways who are these "white males" are they Canadians, from USA, UK, Wales, Scotland, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, well all the countries around there, Australia New Zealand...just who?...heck what a miserable sexist racist term used by idiots who fail to see it is as offensive as any other racist sexist term one could find...more so because it is just so wide ...do they have "slightly brown male" perhaps " sortta yellow male" ..freaking idiots...but its the hateful way they use "white male" that gets me...and their failure to realise the racism they rage against is the same as the hatred they suffer..fools and idiots.. and look at the dribble we get..look at the strawman sent in reply to your post that I reply to now....so you have problems with gay marriage..what tripe... you said noting of the sort or hinted such...clearly one of the troup who has bent to the abuse and bulling brought to bear on anyone who dares to offer an opinion not scripted by the head wanker,...the tacticts are so slimey they make me sick...and as to calling a lady "love" lets change that and be factual and call her "woman" that should go down much better.

    "Thank you woman"

    Context is entirely lost on these fools.

    And calling on Paddo "to grow a pair"...nothing wrong with that I can see...
    Certainly not sexual abuse and all references to him being old..nothing wrong with that ?????
    Of course not... anything on our side (their side) is ok in fact perfect...they are perfect..we know that and more than entitled to judge others...and if not for them there would not be "sides" but thats what haters do....choose sides..oh you choose the wrong side.
    We now hate you.

    Look how calm Paddo has remained whilst suffering irrational abuse and blatant bullying. What hypocrites...

    Anyways you take care I am not coming back here to be bullied and abused by total hypocrites...it is a waste of time..now I have got out of the habit of wasting time here I use my time to do good things..
    positive and creative..so good to be away from these haters..you and Paddo are good people its most of the others who have problems.

    And for those of you who now have a new object of hate... write what you like..but know this I wont be reading your crap so just sizzle away doing what you enjoy most...hating.

    Pity the left cant get rid of all the snowflakes and get back to issues of concern to real people.

    "White male" is as offensive as niggar because it is so racist but it beats niggar because it is sexist too... Yet the idiots just have no idea.

    Alex
     

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