Eugene questions Dawkins

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by Eugene Shubert, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    No. These Kamikaze snakes are just power-assisted gliders. Just wait for the more powerful versions to evolve.
     
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  3. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Library collections are obviously the result of a selection process. If we imagine a set of academic specialty libraries all being stocked with the same random set of academic titles (publishers' entire catalogs or something), over time we would expect physics libraries collections to differ more and more from medical libraries or Greek and Roman classics libraries, as librarians weeded their collections of irrelevant titles.
     
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  5. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    No, they are not alive. Could you at least pretend you are interested in an actual discussion?
     
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  7. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    I mean he must know because he posted a video of one. I guess he's wondering if the development of full flight with wings is inevitable? There has to be a path of possible gradual change with distinct advantage of each step in order to evolve. If gliding away from danger serves the animal well and there is no additional advantage to powered flight, it will never grow wings. Additionally, if snake limbs are completely vestigial and internal, there cannot be a gradual path towards increasing their size and flapping ability. Snake adaptation to flight involves their whole body spreading flatter. If they did evolve powered flight, it would have to be through a completely different mechanism than birds.
     
  8. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, just an extremely limited form of it. I think machines can be conscious. After all, what are we but complex biological machines?
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Right. Someone decides, based on pretty simple criteria, what to put in collections.
    Well, except that doesn't happen - no one says "hey, just order me a random bunch of titles from the catalog for my medical school library." And if they did that, and they let selection occur without librarian input, each collection would become MORE inappropriate as the appropriate titles (which would be the most heavily used) would be stolen or wear out.

    However, if you came up with an experiment where 1) all libraries started with random books and 2) the librarians then went and weeded out all the off-topic books, then each library would become instantly specialized, per the selection rules of each librarian.
     
  10. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    sideshowbob - exchemist and anyone else interested in possibly not wasting their time

    I just put Eugene on iggy - you are never going to get sense out of a Seventh day Aventis Quantum something or other

    Found what the something is

    He has created (there's a bit of irony) himself as a quantum creationist

    That's one small step for ID, one tiny fall into more stupidity

    This your Atheistic Evolutionists signing of with the immortal words of Dave Allan Good night and may your god go with you

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  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No. They bring concepts into existence (inasmuch as a concept can 'exist' in a material world). They don't bring things into existence until the engineers (applied mathematics) get involved.
     
  12. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Eugene, are you having fun?
     
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Moderator note: Four threads on essentially the same topic have been merged into this one.
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Eugene Shubert:

    This is entirely a direct quote from Dawkins, is it? You ought to make it clear when you're quoting and when you're paraphrasing or writing your own material.

    This appears to be a non sequitur.

    Do you see some kind of problem with Dawkins' explanation, above? Is that why you're quoting it? Do you have a question you want to ask, or some point you'd like to make?

    The purpose of your posts in this this thread is not clear. Please explain exactly what is the issue you are trying to raise.
     
  15. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    It seems to me that consciousness emerged due to the complexity of the mammalian brain. I believe that at least some other mammals are conscious. Perhaps all are. I am not sure about reptiles & do not believe that insects are conscious.

    It does not seem to be necessary for intelligent activity. At least it seems difficult to prove that it is necessary.
     
  16. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks but I knew that. I only commented once for the benefit of other readers, then put him back on Ignore.

    I researched Shubert once. If I recall correctly, he managed to get chucked out of a 7th Day Adventist church, accusing someone called Graham Maxwell of heresy I think. But now he seems to have gone the full heretic himself, inventing his own religion! (As did David Icke, but that's another story). All part of the little world of 7th Day Adventism.
     
  17. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Just picked back up last night reading about concessness
    Little heavy going
    Might try to distilling my thoughts into text soon

    One thing about concessness is the awareness of self

    Grandiose claims "we are the Universe looking at itself" uggh

    Can't remember which animals but a few, think dolphin is one, when presented with a mirror understand they are looking at themselves. Don't know if that self awareness last (and no idea how you would test for it) after the mirror is removed

    YouTube has numerous videos of animals fighting their reflection. No self awareness

    Also Evey single brain is wired differently plus - it should be a obvious given - every brain grows it's own network connections. What for me is baffling is some areas of the brain specialise

    How can a newborn babies brain have, other than automatic response regions, how can a new brain know - this area I will use for seeing, this part for ready, this part for mathematics etc etc?

    Wonderful crazy world but I wouldn't be anywhere else

    Well maybe the Enterprise

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  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, this question slightly intrigues me as I don't really see any mystery about consciousness and don't understand the fuss that some people make over it. I should have thought that any form of awareness of the environment could be taken to be a form of consciousness. If one views the "mind" as effectively the functioning of the operating system of the brain, then one presumably has a complete spectrum of gradually developing "consciousness", all the way from worms through arthropods and on to mammals.
     
  19. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Anyone who has a pet cat or dog will tell you they're conscious.
     
  20. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Concessness is much much more than what you are describing which is reactionary

    If reactionary is / was the only requirement for concessness then we have had it since the bi metal strip and programmers would not be struggling with AI

    At a very very basic level as I put in another post this thread concessness is self awareness

    We know we are we

    We know we are not only not others we know others are like us but different

    And they would be mistaken

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  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That's a pretty fine line there.

    Dogs exhibit shame when they've wrecked a vase. I cannot see that complex an emotion in a creature that is not at least dimly conscious of itself in the world.

    Cats, of course, have no such shame.
     
  22. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    I can see where you are coming from with that good point

    My first knee jerk reaction would be the dog is reacting to your tone of voice

    When I get deeper into the book "Concessness Explained" I might have a fuller answer (if Huey Dewey and Louie understand it and can transfer the understanding to me

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    Repeat

    Can't remember which animals but a few, think dolphin is one, when presented with a mirror understand they are looking at themselves. Don't know if that self awareness last (and no idea how you would test for it) after the mirror is removed

    YouTube has numerous videos of animalsfighting their reflection. No self awareness

    From my post #74

    I would use self awareness as a starting point - not reactionary responses

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  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I think, as with many attributes of neural networks, it is a continuum. Is a dog conscious? Yes, but at a lower level than a human. Is a mouse? A bird? A lizard? All to some degree or another.
     

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