Eugene questions Dawkins

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by Eugene Shubert, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    "Meaningful" can be replaced with "marketable" and "product superiority" can be equated with "survival of the fittest."
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nonsense. The two processes are nothing alike. Books are not iterated by introducing random and incremental variations in each iteration; indeed, no such mechanism exists either today or in Darwin's day. Further, there is no natural process by which books are selected by reproductive fitness.

    And the basis of your claim is that Darwin did NOT have grand libraries to study; that the 1830's had no such institutions that he could use as a basis, and he thus could not consider such a thought experiment. That is ludicrous.
     
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  5. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    There is no law against how and what a publisher can publish. One proposed mechanism has been published. http://everythingimportant.org/genome.pdf
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It did not. It is an emergent property of a complex neural network.

    The complex neural network we call the brain is molded by evolution to be sufficiently complex, adaptive and functional to ensure survival of the organism. In some animals (annelids) that means simple tropisms. In some animals (birds) it means complex behaviors, including management of flight surfaces, complex mating rituals and long range navigation. In humans it means the ability to express very complex skills - language, ability to accept formal education, engineering skills, childrearing, writing.

    In none of those is consciousness necessary. However, it is has emerged as a consequence of the growing complexity of nervous systems.
     
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  8. Eugene Shubert Valued Senior Member

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    That was just my way of saying how terribly illiterate Charles Darwin was in real science.
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Well to have a debate we need to clearly identify what it is we are to debate.
    Perhaps present the case for whatever it is that you wish to support a little more specific.
    I tried to reduce your propostion buut thought perhaps you should could rather than us guess maybe.
    Iam not sure as to your exact point.
    Alex
     
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I suppose one could study what knowledge survives.
    There are books and there are books. I guess over time if you tracked a culture over centuries it probably show different vooks being removed for what ever reason.
    But if you suggest Darwin somehow did a slack job for whatever reason I doubt you can provide a convincing arguement.
    Would you be capable of presenting such a body of work to present to us whatever proposition you think is reality.
    Alex
     
  11. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    No he wouldn't

    No it's not

    OK
    Now explain to me where two books screw each other
    One gets pregnant
    And after gestation a baby booklet is born (sorry I don't know the gestation period of books. It wasn't taught when I did my Nursing Midwifery course)

    I'm guessing from here

    Baby book is checked by the Matron Miss Encyclopaedia and given to the proud parents who bill and coo about baby book's fonts and which parent has the closest matching font

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    Sorry you are insulting poor halfwits

    No there is not

    Arrrrh if only we could remove humans who sprout unrecognizable gibberish

    As Wolfgang Pauli put it (paraphrase) It's not only faulty it's not even wrong

    No they can't

    Yes it is

    Charles Darwin was intelligent

    It would not matter as his intelligence enabled him to create his own real science from his observations

    And if you are using not studying in a great library to demonstrate how terribly illiterate Charles Darwin was in real science I would put you in the "has never even seen a book or ever understood Science" group

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  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Now I am starting to worry about all the books that have gone extinct and we will never know about them.
    I think we could research the records and see which books Dawin took out of the library, references as to what he may have read and books of the time an ones that he didnt read.
    It could be done but the fact is evolution rules if you have a better model beat Dawin but I dont like your chances.
    Alex
     
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    A library could, in principle, be developed this way.

    Notice, though, that there's a selection mechanism missing from the above description. It's impled right there in the "examine the result to see if the new phrase is meaningful" part, but not specified. Who or what is doing the examining? What does "meaningful" mean in this context? Meaningful to whom? Meaningful for what?

    This model also assumes that new books are only produced by copying old ones, with occasional mistakes. Nothing wrong with that, although we know that's not how it works in real-world libraries.

    To summarise: there's nothing inherently absurd about this idea, but there are a lot of important pieces missing from the description of this so-called evolving library.

    The description given is, of course, completely inadequate for explaining how our real, current, libraries came to be the way they are.
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Which parts of this are you, and which parts are direct quotes from Dawkins? Please clarify.
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Sorry to say, but that's not a thing.
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Which parts of this are you, and which parts are direct quotes from Dawkins? Please clarify.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    All creationists are "God did it" creationists - they just have different names for God.
     
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  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Why would you believe Darwin did not know how books were shelved or printed?
    He wasn't. And "literacy in science" seems almost useless, as a concept - what would it mean?
    Not if you want to apply Darwinian evolutionary theory.

    Library evolution is not Darwinian. So?
     
  19. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Ooh, I know!

    Library evolution is Lamarckian.
     
  20. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Quantum is the new god

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    Wonder whoes bright idea it was to pick up the new buzz word and try to run with "we have something scientists cannot explain. Well we can link it to ID"

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  21. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    You appear to be using yours to confuse other posters

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  22. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Where did I say you did?
     
  23. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Please don't confuse the confused

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