enlightmentisnowhere

Discuss.

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:bugeye:

 

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But only if you never seek it out.

 

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What is there to discuss?

 

Identity... we all have it. There is not a person without it.

 

What are you guys talking about?

I said, "Enlightenment is NOW here"

 

Enlightenment of what sort?

 

Here's enlightenment:

The words of Sri Nisargardatta Maharaj: The world is but the surface of the mind and the mind is infinite. What we call thoughts are just ripples in the mind. When the mind is quiet it reflects reality. When it is motionless, through and through, it dissolves, and only reality remains. This reality is so concrete, so actual, so much more tangible than mind and matter that compared to it even diamond is soft like butter. This overwhelming actuality makes the world dream-like, misty, irrelevant.

Gilbert Schzultz: Everything that appears only ever appears in the immediacy. In this immediacy, it is presence appearing. There is only one presence. Time and space appear in this presence. No matter what is appearing in this moment, by returning to the pure nature of cognition, or knowing, or the space like nature of awareness, it will be found that there is no foundation upon which these appearances rest.

There is no duality in non-duality.

There's a free podcast on the urban guru cafe featuring Nisargardata - the guy who wrote 'I am That'. It's a hard listen with the back ground noise of India's bustle, but it's worth persevering just for the words. Brilliant. I reckon that site has hit the nail on the head when talking about this stuff. The first pod cast, all of them are for free, looks at that very issue of whether or not there is enlightenment. The podcasts are professionally produced and entertaining to listen to as well. Really up to date.

 

Enlightenment cannot be conveyed by words. They can at best point the direction like a compass, though never embody the state that it is.

 

It is only with words that it can be pointed to, but yes, IT must be known and not the words.

 

I am not sure if by what you say you mean that you have it more right than he does or if you are trying to say the same thing in different words. Spell it out man!

 

Who are you referring to here?

 

Beg your pardon Jozen-Bo, I was referring to you.

 

While there are many different ways we can say one is enlightened, when we speak of enlightenment itself, it generally refers to the overall combination of those sub faceted areas and still exceeds their sum. For example; Bentheman may be more enlightened about physics then most other members here, but is he so with philosophy or art? This is to provide one such example of the word.

To reach the state of inner enlightenment, supreme enlightenment as Buddha called it, is much different. This is the enlightenment that we cannot ever directly express with words. It is also known as perfect enlightenment or unsurpassed enlightenment. Few people ever experience it directly, only hear about it and possibly doubt it can be. This enlightenment one cannot have more right then another, either you experience it and embody it or not, as it is the peak itself...there is not a greater peak...otherwise the word peak has no meaning.

So...I am not saying that I have it more right then he does. I am expressing the same with different words, which I have seen at the heart of many profound readings from many great teachers upon carefully absorbing their teachings. They have different ways of saying the same thing and provide more angles and more pointers that point in the very same direction. I collect such words that I may have more pointers then one, making it easier to find oneself in that enlightened state.

Yes, I boldly will state that I am enlightened and I now know exactly why I am here on this world. That does not free me from the challenge of my purpose here, it makes me happy to be so challenged. As well, I know where I will be upon dying and where I was before living here and more then I can ever say or express....let alone summarize.

 

That's not enlightenment, that's opinion.

 

Hey Oli, your description of yourself is 'Intimidatingly competent'. I don't think so!

You might want to present some argument or reasoning for making a silly judgement like 'that's opinion'. Anything spoken about is opinion. Any label presupposes, for example, that there is a 'me' and an 'other', be that 'other' an object or person or the space around 'me'.

Isn't what the message points to, however, beyond opinion? Have you looked to see to what he points? Is there opinion in that or is it 'experiencing' reality, and, possibly, what people term 'enlightenment'?

 

Oh no, it's not MY description of me.

Didn't you just make my point for me in the same paragraph that you queried it?
I declared those statements to be opinion because they have (or at least present) no evidence support them.

Example: "The world is but the surface of the mind and the mind is infinite."
The mind is infinite? :shrug:

Not that I can see.
Infinite minds?

There seems to little be reality in there.

 

So tell me, what experience is there for you of the 'me'? Did you do anything to give rise to this 'state'? What is the mind's role in it all - I mean in life - when there is enlightenment?

 

Really? Whatever could you mean by this? Do you mean that there are no words to describe what is there when the mind is motionless, or do you mean that everything no longer exists? It certainly isn't my experience, i.e. that nothing exists - in fact things are more real, more immediate, more received by the senses. And there is an obvious sense of 'nothing wrong' with anything about it.

How long did you stay to sense what was there? How quickly did the mind come to claim it and name it and 'understand it' (i.e. tell an interpretive story about it?).

 

The mind is infinte?
Is that real or a speculation?
"there is no foundation upon which these appearances rest."
Is that real or assumption?

No, I mean that the statements appear to flawed: not in accord with reality.

How much time did it deserve?