Empirical Evidence of God

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Bowser, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. akoreamerican Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    602
    This was the goal ---> does God exist?

    If you believe in cause and effect God must exist because the creation exists. GOOOAAALL!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!










    Stopping looking elsewhere guys and gals, the goalpost was up there already.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. sweetpea Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,052
    Home goal.
    ''If you believe in cause and effect ,'' then the next question is... What caused your god?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,738
    This is a tautology.

    God exists because God's got to exist.

    If you start with the assumption that God exists then you're not even bothering to ask the question 'does God exist?' - nevermind bothering to answer it.

    It's perfect for people who want to believe. Not so much for the rest of us.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Slartibartfast Registered Member

    Messages:
    61
    What was the cause if god was the effect?
     
  8. akoreamerican Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    602
    That is a different question, and a question that I'm not interested in, perhaps you would like to tackle it.
     
  9. Slartibartfast Registered Member

    Messages:
    61
    No! I'm happy to see you run away in fear
     
  10. akoreamerican Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    602
    If I'm running away in fear then so are you. RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
     
  11. Slartibartfast Registered Member

    Messages:
    61
    13th prize in a two horse race is yours, huzzah.
     
  12. akoreamerican Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    602
    I hope that made you feel better about yourself, but whatever.
     
  13. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,555
    You should re-read the topic title. The goal is to present empirical evidence for the existence of God.

    There are 2 problems there:

    1. "If you believe in cause and effect..." Believers tend to say that God is the "uncaused cause" so, in fact, they are the ones who do not believe in cause and effect. To put it another way, if the creator can be uncaused, then maybe the creation can be too.

    2. The existence of creation is empirical evidence that the creation exists. It is not valid to infer a creator from that evidence. A smoking gun is only evidence of a smoking gun. You'd need further evidence to show that the smoking gun was the cause of death.

    Incidentally, even if there was evidence that a god existed, you'd still need further evidence to show that it was the cause of the creation.
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,162
    And you believe that no force other than a God could be causal?
     
  15. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,201
    If you call it a creation, it needs a creator, but that's just a grammatical convention.

    What was the cause of god?
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,162
    Even that is a narrow viewpoint. The term Creator implies sentience. But creation can easily occur from a non sentient creative process.

    Hydrogen and oxygen combine to form (create) water. Is God neccessary in the creation of this product?
     
  17. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,444
    Erm, no it's not.
    It asks, "... what would serve as empirical evidence for those who don't believe in God. What is itthat you need to prove God's existence?Would it be something physical, solid--something you can hold in your hand?Or is there something else that wouldprove his existence?"

    Personally I think it is a wasted question. Subconsciously you all know there is God, but you reject, and deny, to the point that you have forgotten.

    How can something that is created be uncaused.
    This is what I mean about rejecting, and denying. You'll say any old crap to maintain your delusion.

    Why not?
    Wait!
    Don't bother it's just rejection and denial.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    One step at a time mate., one step at a time.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Jan.
     
    Musika likes this.
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,555
    That's exactly what I said. The topic isn't about whether or not God exists. It's about whether or not empirical evidence of God exists. There could hypothetically be a God that has no empirical evidence.

    What do you think empirical means?

    I agree that it's a wasted question but for a different reason. You know there is no empirical evidence for your God. Some of you even openly admit that God can not be seen, etc. There's a whole elaborate screen of bullshit built around the idea that He deliberately hides because He wants you to have faith.

    The same way that God can be uncaused. And even if there was evidence that a god existed, you'd still need further evidence to show that it was the cause of the creation.
     
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,738
    You're a theist. Of course you'd think that way.

    God just isn't. Accept it.
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,366
    It's a logical fallacy, informally "begging the question", more formally some kind of circular reasoning.
     
  21. Slartibartfast Registered Member

    Messages:
    61
    This is funny. No more need to be said.
     
  22. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,380
    ///
    Subconsciously you know there is no god. Stop lying to yourself.

    <>
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    31,621
    Jan Ardena:

    It looks like we need a separate thread to attempt to discuss your many misconceptions about evolution.

    Out of interest, how does that work, Jan? Are the little gods like avatars of big God, appearing independent but actually just aspects of the one True God?

    When the little gods have conflicting agendas, is that because big God is inconsistent? Or does big God like to sow confusion in his Creation?

    Can you explain to me how you reconcile Zeus, Vishnu and Yahweh? Would you say all of these are "real fantasy figures" like Santa Claus, or are they all aspects of the One God? Is Zeus as real as Yahweh? Or perhaps Zeus is a fantasy figure and Yahweh is in some way closer to Big God?

    Or is it perhaps that Yahweh and Zeus are just symptoms of the human struggle to picture Big God?

    Is a person who believes in Yahweh in any sense more "right" than one who believes in Zeus, or are both equally misguided? Or does it not matter which little god you believe in, and you might as well follow Zeus as Yahweh, since you're really, secretly, following Big God without knowing it?

    It is important to appreciate that "own understandings" are not created equal, however. One person's understanding can be demonstrably in better accordance with objective fact that another person's. The scientist's belief that Earth is over 4 billion years old is demonstrable in better accordance with objective fact than the biblical genealogist's belief that Earth is only 6000 years old.

    A person who is aware of the objective evidence that supports the scientist's opinion, and the evidence that supports the biblical genealogist's opinion, is equipped to judge objectively that the scientist's understanding about the age of the Earth is superior to the biblical genealogist's.

    A constant theme that runs through your posts is that one person's subjective belief is as good as another's - about just about anything - and the weight of evidence doesn't matter very much. You appear to think that "real for you" means the same as "real". Until you address this blind spot of yours, you'll never really be equipped to decide if God is real. You'll only ever be able to adopt a belief one way or the other, arbitrarily.
     

Share This Page