Empirical Evidence of God

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Bowser, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    You may know this.....

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  3. Slartibartfast Registered Member

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    Umm yep. LOL
     
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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I can see how one could postulate like that, at that time.

    We can lay claim to anything, apart from the claimer.

    The agenda is expressed through the work. It is implicated through the manipulation of explanations, as in Ernst Haeckels embryo drawings, to name an obvious one

    I think when you say things like theists and their gods, I think you purposely misrepresent theism, a more subtle atheist agenda. I have no need to invoke gods, as I accept God, the origin of gods.
    Even in India, they may worship gods, but they accept God. The Origin of gods.

    The reality is that science can only tell us about the natural world. So a scientist not accepting a theistic claim, can only do so out of his or her personal understanding.

    If a theist claims the world is 10,000 years old. He/she does so on their own understanding. Even if they are counting back the genioligical lineages from the Bible.

    Even so, it could not discount God. Only the account of the personal text.

    Examples?

    Jan.
     
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  7. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    I'll ask again. Where does it say that?

    Jan.
     
  8. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Where in the Bible?
    Show me.

    Jan.
     
  9. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    140
    Or, at any time. Can you say we observe a diversity of species in nature? Do you think all species are affected by their natural environment?

    Okay, and the reason we can't claim the claimer is...?

    Sorry Jan, I didn't know you were going back through ancient history, so to speak. We can find Piltdown Man as well. The thing is that it was scientists themselves who started criticizing Haeckels drawings, yet they are still used as educational aids because they are fundamentally correct. Science worked here quite well.

    So, it's not correct to say that theists don't have gods that they believe exist? Are you saying gods are not limited to theists? How does this even remotely appear as any kind of agenda? It's merely a simple describer.

    You'll need to explain that one, I have no idea what it means.

    Or, like anyone else, they don't accept the claim if it can't be supported, it doesn't have to be a theist claim, it can be any claim.

    No one uses the method of counting lineages to determine the age of the Earth because they are unrelated. It would be like trying to determine the age of tree by how many bird-nests have been in it.

    And, that's probably the point we can both agree, that science will not discount God.

    Of course, we first have to account for God before we can consider discounting God.

    When I come across them I'll be happy to point them out.

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  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Finally a name associated with a belief. But what is that belief? What are you trying to say?
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/gallery/2017/nov/01/ernst-haeckel-the-art-of-evolution-in-pictures

    God is manifest as Nature? In what way does that draw a distinction between God as a metaphysical force apart from an evolving Darwinian physical Reality?

    Is your argument that, if you accept explicate Nature, then one must accept an implicate God?
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    See above. You just quoted it.
     
  12. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Not enough to develop a completely new morphological structure.

    Because we are the claimer.
    The buck stops at "I".

    It shows this agenda is not a new idea.

    Steven Gould - “Abscheulich (Atrocious!): Haeckel’s distortions did not help Darwin”

    If telling big whopping lies to fool the public, especially young impressionable minds, is your idea of good science, I will be forced to evaluate my participation in this discussion, as it can truly go nowhere.

    Okay. You're in a discussion with me, and maybe a few other theists here.
    Where have I, or others talked about "gods"?

    I'm saying that theists believe in God, therefore God's, or any manifestation of God's creation. Some Hindus practice worship of god's. But God is the ultimate object of worship. So unless I bring the notions of God's into the conversation, there is no need for you to, as it will be off-topic.

    But atheists like to make no distinction between God, and god's. They do this because they like to make it seem as though there are thousands of God's that theists believe in, making it seem as though God is a made up character.
    Another aspect of the atheist agenda.

    That's not exclusive to atheists. It is the same with most humans in general.

    Well, I've heard that's what some Christians do.

    Unfortunately atheists uninvited themselves to that party.

    Have ever come across that kind of reaction at Sciforums?

    Jan.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  13. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    11,193
    Alex posted... The good book[Bible] is quiet clear that God made the first human out of dirt what more evidence do you need than that.

    The verse you put forward does not say, or imply that.
    So again I ask. Where does it say that?

    Jan.
     
  14. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Have you ever looked at skeletons? Ever compare the bones of a hummingbird with that of a sperm whale? They're both bones made of pretty much the same material, but vastly different in size and shape. We can conclude bones are made of the same materials and come in all shapes and sizes. And, it is the genes that tell the bones what shape and size they're going to be, hence it's simply a matter of a slightly different genetic code and we have a different morphological structure, as you say.

    "We" as in you and I?
    I think you just claimed the claimer.

    And, an idea long forgotten in the science community.

    What big whopping lies do you refer exactly. There were slight exaggerations in which the science community identified. This is what is being taught to impressionable minds, the idea of critical thinking, inquiry and skepticism to weed out such exaggerations.

    Obviously, Gould is over-reacting like a petulant child.

    It's the Religion forum, the topic title specifically says, "Empirical Evidence of God" how is God then off-topic?

    History shows there have been a great deal of religions and a great deal of gods believed to have existed. Don't see why this is a problem.
    Another aspect of the atheist agenda.

    Exactly, we agree.

    Unfortunately, they will always be wrong using that method.

    I understand, and atheists are still waiting for God to be accounted. Any idea when that might happen?

    Haven't been here long enough to find out, I think you are one of only two theists here that I can tell. Why are there so few theists here?
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    14,143
    "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground"

    That's an archaic way of saying dirt. Some modern translations:

    "The Lord God took a handful of soil and made a man." (CEV)
    "The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground." (NET)
    "The Eternal God scooped dirt out of the ground and sculpted it into the shape we call human." (Voice)

    Sorry; looks like you are not going to be able to "redefine" your way out of this one.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,872
    Effects easily large enough to abet development of completely new morphological structures have been observed. Many mechanisms of development have been described, and observed in action. What's stopping them?
    Just taking the theists at their word. They're willing to kill each other over these distinctions, it seems a bit odd to deny the existence of them.
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, but you never explained the properties of God. You are using a human invented but undefined Titular "word" which requires worship as the ultimate causality of Reality?
    One can make the same argument that atheists believe in Nature, therefore Nature's, or any manifestation of Nature's creation.
    We can BOTH agree on that word, can't we?
    Yes by theists
    Natura Artis Magistra (Nature is the teacher of Art)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  18. river

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    11,058
    The empirical evidence is intelligence of living beings .

    I would think and the evolution of any living being .

    How would carbon induce intelligence into any living thing ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That sounds entirely reasonable (intelligence begets intelligence), but consider that not all living things can think or need to think.

    This would be empirical evidence that an intelligence is not an absolute requirement for living things, but only a probabilistic evolutionary function from "inanimate" bio-chemicals to "animate" cellular organisms.

    If one wishes to claim that God is a sentient cosmic Imperative, we need a little more than the hubris of considering only humans to be gods (in the likeness of God).
    Anyway, that's what we like to think.....

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    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    But not at this time? The postulate was true then, but is not true any longer? When did that happen? Please explain.
     
  21. river

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    How do you know the limits of thought , though ?

    How do chemicals , in and of themselves produce intelligence ?

    Humans consider themselves as gods ? Where did this come from ?
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It doesn't. Evolution induces intelligence in living things when such intelligence helps them pass on their genetic heritage. Carbon really doesn't enter into it (other than you have to eat some.)
     
  23. river

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    11,058
    Explain HOW evolution induces intelligence .

    Your assuming that intelligence already exists .
     

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