Einstein and Buddhism

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by Esoteric, Feb 17, 2004.

  1. duendy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,585
    ok ok, let me tell you about le actuAL en pracTICE..or in other words 'ACTUAL BEHAVIOUR of self-confessed Buddhists'

    i was amember of another site. in one of its forums was a strong contingent of Buddhists. not all from the same schools, and from differnt parts of the world, so we had say, from USE, Singapore, Germany, China, and there were a couple of Tibetan buddhists thrown in, etc

    so. i begin to debate, and challenge some of thier beliefs, and mention about my respect of hallucinogens........
    WELL...the reponse was SO reactionary, SO abusive, and ignorant, so hypocritical....it VERy much opened my eyes even more!

    Someone here says Buddhists don't have beliefs. of COURSe they do. they believe in 'KARMA'...so all this crap about them dismissing the Hindu caste system is....crap. mainly because they have KEPT its MIAN instigator. the BELIEF in karma

    they believe in 'Nirvana'...the idea that after many yeqrs of achiing legs they just migyht 'ESCAPE' the 'wheel of birth and death'...THAt isn't belief? then what is?
    why is that not considered a belief just like the christian one that one day the 'sinner' will get to heaven and/or be 'enraptured' and/or find themselves on a 'transfigured eearth/the new world...bla bla

    so please, come off it. we are not fools here. we --some of us anyhow--can see what we see, and understand what we understand

    Regarding its comparison with Taoism. i take it you mean philophical Taoism?
    Well, there is an old drawing of threee people. i cant exactly remember it, but vaguloey recall there are three characatures of a confusionist, a Taoist and a Buddhist. They all have put their finger into a Bowl and are seen tasting what is in it.
    can't remember the expression of the former, but the Buddhist has sour look on face...ie., "all is suffering" and the Taoist has a happy look on face. so i suppose the illustrator was illutrating the differnt approaches to life

    I have though also been thrown off--VERY swiftly--from a Taoist forum for mentioning about hallucinogenic experience

    Of course from thee experiences i am learning, and i will very much share with you insights along the way--about what i have am learning--if thread continues

    as for Einstein....i know that he tookthe credit for much of what his wife achieved
     
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  3. river-wind Valued Senior Member

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    2,671
    Buddhism inherited much from Hinduism. Karma, re-incarnation, etc, are things which Guatma grew up with. Just as you or I understand TV as part of the world, reincarnation was simply a part of the Buddha's world.

    However, much of what is Buddhism today was not taught by Buddha, but added later by followers in need of a religion to follow.

    Buddha himself said roughly "pay attention as much to what I have not told you as to what I have told you", in responce to a pupil who asked him what occurs after death, if there are Gods, etc.
    There are answers to those questions, but they do not help you in reducing your suffering today, so they are questions of secondary importance.


    "By this you shall know that a man is not my disciple, that he tries to work a miracle."
     
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  5. Buddhist Registered Member

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    2
    When someone asked buddha to describe buddhism in one word he answered:
    AWARENESS

    That is what buddhism is all about, it has no dogma's or rules or belief in karma
    (that's tibetan buddhism).
     
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  7. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    Good answer. I practice Jnana Yoga to create AWARENESS in self. Looks like Buddhism, Hinduism, Kabalah are all the same....

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  8. Dr Seuss Registered Member

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    1
    This statement contradicts itself. It also seems your view of philosophical history is somewhat distorted.

    Socrates was not the founder of the philospophy underlying Stoicism. Zeno of Citium WAS the founder.. there CAN ONLY BE ONE.

    Socrates existed long before the arrival of Stoicism.

    ONE of Socrates cherished beliefs was that to a man who preserves his integrity no real, long-term harm can ever come. He believed that the uncertainities of this world are such that ANYONE can be stripped of all his possessions and be thrown into prison unjustly, or crippled by disease or accident; but these are chance happenings in a fleeting existence that is going to end soon anyway. Provided your soul remains untouched, your misfortunes will be comparatively trivial. Real personal catastrophe exists in the corruption of ones soul. That is why it does a person far less harm to suffer injustice than to commit it.

    It was this one belief that made Socrates a hero to the Stoics, who hundreds of years later turned him into a sort of secular patron saint.


    Again this is incorrect. Stoicism was not developed from that of the Cynics. In fact they all existed at the same time.

    Aristotle was teacher to Alexander the Great, and when his empire broke up, after his death, it was these four new schools of philosophy that flourished - The Cynics, The Skpetics, the Epicureans ,and the Stoics.

    It is also highly ethical. Not so easy to put into practise. Also, Stoics had a funny habit of committing suicide, since they believed in times of the agony of personal sickness or disgrace, it was better to end ones own life. Most of the well known Stoics went out like this. I consider this a bit of a flaw.

    It was not just the tents of Stoicism that was taken by Christianity. Since the New Testament was written in Greek (even though it was the time of the Romans), the authors determined that their writings would have to exist alongside the current Greek writings and beliefs, which were the major thought systems of the period.

    It was not just Stoicism, but all of the great philosphies of antiquity were scrutinised to determine which of their ideals could be harmonised with Christianity, and which would have to be rejected.

    It was Thomas Aquinas, who had studied Platoism and neo-Platoism that completed this task.
     
  9. dainliamne Registered Member

    Messages:
    2
    duendy,


    iWELL...the reponse was SO reactionary, SO abusive, and ignorant, so hypocritical....it VERy much opened my eyes even more!

    Which forum? But that is besides the point, why judge something because of its followers? People of all faiths (yes, including Buddhism and Taoism) have engaged in wars and slavery and such.


    Someone here says Buddhists don't have beliefs. of COURSe they do. they believe in 'KARMA'...so all this crap about them dismissing the Hindu caste system is....crap. mainly because they have KEPT its MIAN instigator. the BELIEF in karma

    First, do not confuse with the Hindu notion of it...kamma has a very different meaning to it and is related to understanding Dependent Origination. In Hinduism (and I believe Jainism, too), kamma is seen as something that is "carried on" from one life to the next through "reincarnation" of an impersonal soul (atman).

    they believe in 'Nirvana'...the idea that after many yeqrs of achiing legs they just migyht 'ESCAPE' the 'wheel of birth and death'...THAt isn't belief? then what is?
    why is that not considered a belief just like the christian one that one day the 'sinner' will get to heaven and/or be 'enraptured' and/or find themselves on a 'transfigured eearth/the new world...bla bla

    Buddhism treats this very differently. First, an example. Think about an oil lamp--a fire burns due to many conditions: a wick, oil, air. Remove the necessary conditions and the fire will go out (stop providing air, for example). Kamma can be seen as this, the conditions which we set up within our minds, and these conditions exist until their result comes about. In Buddhism, there exists a concept of non-linear kamma due to this way of looking at it. Since there is NO SOUL or FUNDAMENTAL SELF in Buddhism, kamma is not something that is carried but the conditions that are set forth and are continued within the next life. But talking about the next life makes less sense with a soul? The claim is to look at your current life: think of yourself when you were 10, and now. You then look like two people with different amounts of knowledge, different goals, and such, but because of the conditions and their result you know you are also the same: different, yet, the same. Every moment of life is in essence re-birth (Buddhists use this term instead of re-incarnation) and the only reason to use this term is the continuation in the next life. The next life is Not you but it is Non not-you. Nibbana is the state when this process stops, when delusion, ignoarance, the idea of immortality, and such stop, when Relative Truths stop being improtant and only the Absolute Truth is seen. As such, it cannot really be described with Relative Truth; it can only be somewhat expressed. The wheel of birth and deat is different than what you thought it was; the escape is to free the mind of the necessities of thinking "I am this, I am that" and thus understanding that everything is an interconnected whole process and minds come and go. Nibanna is a mental state of mind, and not heaven or such and such. I do recommend that you learn a few things of what others follow before chastising them about them. This, I guess, is not the clearest explanation but this answer is already getting too long...


    so please, come off it. we are not fools here. we --some of us anyhow--can see what we see, and understand what we understand

    Regarding its comparison with Taoism. i take it you mean philophical Taoism?
    Well, there is an old drawing of threee people. i cant exactly remember it, but vaguloey recall there are three characatures of a confusionist, a Taoist and a Buddhist. They all have put their finger into a Bowl and are seen tasting what is in it.
    can't remember the expression of the former, but the Buddhist has sour look on face...ie., "all is suffering" and the Taoist has a happy look on face. so i suppose the illustrator was illutrating the differnt approaches to life

    First, I fail to see what this proves

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    . Who drew it, from what era, and such. Buddhists do not look at things "all is suffereing", but as unskillful acts (such as getting angry, attacking, speaking badly, and such) as having duhhka as their result once the conditions they set about ripen. Duhhka is closer to "unsatisfactoriness" than "suffering" as it is sometimes translated to. The problem with translating Pali (actually the problem in translating from one language to another) is the meaning of some words are harder to convey.


    I have though also been thrown off--VERY swiftly--from a Taoist forum for mentioning about hallucinogenic experience

    Of course from thee experiences i am learning, and i will very much share with you insights along the way--about what i have am learning--if thread continues

    Please do share, but do not throw something away (philosopy, religion, and science) because of what someone says on a forum...if that happened I would have stopped studying Hume (long story) long ago.

    as for Einstein....i know that he tookthe credit for much of what his wife achieved

    Oh, I did not know that. Would you share

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    -Dainliamne
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2005
  10. Natalie Registered Member

    Messages:
    1

    No, allow me to "break it down"

    First off, as one of the most revered intellects of our time, I can confidently say that Einstein knew what he spoke of when making this statement. During his time, there was without question, a sufficient amount of information on both Taoist and Buddhist philosophies. If he felt that Taoism better fit his description chances are he would have used Taoism rather than Buddhism.

    And a word to the wise, next time you decide to reply to a post I suggest doing a little homework to ensure you're not posting erroneous information (see above). Although you may know something about Taoism (which is questionable, seeing how your arguments failed to provide substantial evidence for either) it's rather obvious you know very little about Buddhism. For future refference, do yourself a favor and refrain from discussing topics you know nothing about.
     
  11. ecclesiastes Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    82
    karma in Hinduism has nothing to do with its caste system..
    what happens in religions and customs is that there might be certain practices which are needed in a particular society to suit that time and place..and these practices in due time turn into rigid rituals or customs..
    the need for dividing the society into castes or classes was a form of division of labour...specialisation..certain groups of people better skilled at doing certain things.. farmers warriors traders scholars...but then people stretch it and discriminate and take the entire meaning out of a sensible system for selfish reasons..and then it becomes a bad system...so the caste system has nothing to do with hinduism..that form of division of society happened to exist at the time hinduism originated...and it became associated with hinduism...
    it has nothing to do with the 'karma' in hinduism which essentially is 'duty' or 'work'..duty is of utmost importance not the result...that is all that they its trying to say..i dont understand why people blow it up so much..
     
  12. Awake Just BE! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    136
    I tend to agree, but people blow it up so much because of the results that the caste system has had on the Indian society. If it wasn't used to discriminate than hardly anything would be heard about it, but since people have been so vicious with it, those who disagree will be heard.
     

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