Einstein and Buddhism

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by Esoteric, Feb 17, 2004.

  1. Esoteric Tragic Hero Registered Senior Member

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    "The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both natural and spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual and a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism."

    -Einstein

    What is your take on this quote and the future or religion?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2004
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I tend to agree, although I think Taoism is more suitable. Better yet no religion at all. Religion used to encompass such diverse fields as medicine, science, judicial law, and cosmology. Now that these are specialized studies, what is left for religion to do?
     
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  5. Awake Just BE! Registered Senior Member

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    When we get to the point where we no longer need a word to describe "it" (religion), we will have taken a large step on the path to where we are.
     
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  7. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    Esoteric:
    That he's as confused, annoyed, and as wonderful as I am.
     
  8. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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    Queen Bitch of the Universe, I presume?
     
  9. Esstazq Registered Senior Member

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    Wow, wasn't Einstein's beliefs more centered on God, though? In fact wasn't one of his theories the whole God doesn't gamble in argument of randonmess in creation. He may say that Buddhism may be more related to modern science, but what did he believe in? I may be wrong (I am most likely wrong please correct me Buddhist know-it-alls), but does not Buddhism have a generally open-ended dogma?
     
  10. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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    I do not believe in a personal God, and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

    ~Albert Einstein~

    Source
     
  11. Ozymandias Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

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    No...no. Taoism much more aptly fits that description. Here, lemme break it down.

    "The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion."
    Taoist.

    "It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology."
    Not Buddhism. That religion has developed specific gods, all facets of Brahman. It has dogmas, it has theology, it is as much locked into being a "Religion" as Christianity.

    "Covering both natural and spiritual,"
    Taoism, again.

    "it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things,"
    Taoism. Not Buddhism -- Buddhism is based on transcending all things, rather than experiencing them all.

    "natural and spiritual and a meaningful unity."
    Natural, spiritual, united with Tao. Yup, here's Taoism.

    "Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism."
    Whoa. Slow down, Einstein. Perhaps you might want to pick up some Vedas before saying that load of tripe again...

    I can understand that his description could be interpreted as many different things, with slight word twists and a careful eye, and I'm sure that an avid Buddhist (which I'm not) could aptly match the religion of Buddhism to fit Einstein's description ... but it's still Taoism that seems to be the perfect match, to me.
     
  12. te jen Registered Senior Member

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    532
    You go, Ozy!
     
  13. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    Rapacocksucker:
    No. Nice try though.

    Esstazq:
    Not as much centered on God as he was centered in pushing away the prototype of God that men try to sell people. His god or what have you was conceptual.

    Read it closer: If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it....

    An indestructible feeling of awe that knows no dogma, no boundries, no limits or sorrow. It was his "religion", as is mine. That feeling is what both he and I believe in.

    And notice he never said Buddhism as a religion is it- he only singled it out as the only religion that would most be able to cope with the magnifecence of the universe (which I'll disagree with but that's besides the point)... so whoever's cheering this Ozzy person on needs to shut the fuck up..
     
  14. te jen Registered Senior Member

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    532
    My applause for Ozymandias was in his identification of Taoism as the closest match for Einstein's appreciation of the universe. I don't have much use for Buddhism, or for Einstein, either, maladjusted old bastard that he was. For me, though, Taoism (not the multi-god, heavily dogmatized version that came later, but Lao-Tse's original vision) works.

    I will now shut the fuck up.
     
  15. Zarkov Banned Banned

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    657
    Taoism in the East, Stoicism in the West.

    I consider Stoicism far more insightful and scientific. But then I am a barbarian.
     
  16. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    What is Stoicism?
     
  17. Zarkov Banned Banned

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    657
    The founder of the philosophy underlying Stoicism was Socrates (~400BC), however Zeno of Citium (322BC) is considered the founder. (Greece).

    Stoicism is one of the richest and most influential intellectual traditions of antiquity.
    The Stoic philosophy developed from that of the Cynics whose founder, Antisthenes, had been a disciple of Socrates. The four cardinal virtues of the Stoic philosophy are wisdom, courage, justice, and temperance, a classification derived from the teachings of Plato, who was also a pupil of Socrates. Stoics recognized and advocated the brotherhood of humanity and the natural equality of all human beings.

    Stoic Philosophy is eclectic, it gathers truth wherever it can be found. I shall post many truths here, drawn from many corners of the world and from only a few great men.

    The tenets of Stoicism were taken by Christianity..

    See these perennial truths which are attributed to Jesus. These are very STOIC.

    Here is a few from The Gospel of Didymos Judas Thomas
    http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

    states that Jesus said

    "A city being built on a high mountain and fortified cannot fall, nor can it be hidden."

    "If a blind man leads a blind man, they will both fall into a pit."

    "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (gnosis) and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

    "It is to those who are worthy of my mysteries that I tell my mysteries. Do not let your left (hand) know what your right (hand) is doing."

    "Show me the stone which the builders have rejected. That one is the cornerstone."

    "He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in."

    "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one."





    For me, the Stoics were and still are on the money... they considered the whole Universe a single organism... that is a little too wide and relatively meaningless.... but if that greater set is reduced to a smaller set, that of LIFE, then the outcome of such a philosophy is very grounded and even testable.

    In biochemistry, it turns out that there is a relatively small set of biochemical reactions that LIFE employs to gain energy from the inorganic. These reactions are common to all organisms (species, life forms).

    The more we look into LIFE the more we must understand it as a SINGLE super-organism, it is one thing growing on this planet, and is represented by many kinds of super-cells (species) that are genetically controlled.

    The philosophy of Stoicism reflects these very modern conceptualisation of LIFE.

    I can post much more if you wish, Spidergoat

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    Last edited: Mar 2, 2004
  18. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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    Ooh... don't sting me too much now.

    Remember, "Queen Bitch" isn't even a real insult.





    Sheesh... "Rapacocksucker"?


    That is so patronizingly, dismissively innocuous.
    At least take the time to accomodate me with something more creative.

    Will you meet me in the middle, will you meet me in the air?
    Will you love me just a little, just enough to show you care?



    Just love America; doesn't everyone?

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    Now... can't be outdone by a girl... So, just to show that I can be indignant too:

    The nerve of you, inconsiderate woman!



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    Last edited: Mar 3, 2004
  19. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Einstein was quoted as saying;
    "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

    "All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man's life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom."

    He was indicating that real science and real religion, are one and the same, in that the goal is knowledge, the only difference being that they are different stages of knowledge. He clearly has a belief in something other than what he can sense with his mundane senses. He makes clear distinction between matter and spirit, hense his quote.
    In your Einstein quote he says, ".......It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology."
    When he talks of a personal god, he is talking about the image of God made by man. He believed that this type of religion will be trancended by the religion of the future. So from his viewpoint, the current dogmas and theologies which have dominated for so long, are not what he would term as spiritual, but materialistic.
    "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
    I think he chose buddhism as the future religion because it is atheistic, but tends to the spiritual side of man. Compassion, empathy, love, tolerance, etc, can all be developed through its teachings and is probably the most acceptable and suitable system, for the modern, common man of the age. It is also clear however, that Einstein was not a buddhist or atheist, but was a believer in God, a god with a personality and intelligence, why he reffered to God as "He".

    Jan Ardena.
     
  20. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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    1,192
    You saying that he was a Christian?

    'Cause I seriously doubt that, given that all these quotations seem to suggest that he didn't presume to have any idea who/what "God" is.

    He seems to have simply stated "I believe in the beauty of nature and man's ability to appreciate it," or something to that effect.


    Isn't much of a religious standpoint... if you ask me.
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    13,968
    Rappaccini,

    You saying that he was a Christian?

    No!

    'Cause I seriously doubt that, given that all these quotations seem to suggest that he didn't presume to have any idea who/what "God" is.

    "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."

    When you read the above quote, what honest conclusion do you come to?

    Isn't much of a religious standpoint... if you ask me.

    There is a gulf of difference between institutionalised religion and "religion".
    Einstein shuns the institutional type, but is in awe of the real religion hence;
    "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." This cannot be denied.

    Jan Ardena.
     
  22. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    4,779
    Wrapanoosearoundhim:
    Like Rapacaca......Rapacockroach....or rabid coochie?

    Never stick your neck out for gendankens. Those were only samples.

    Zarcov:
    But failed to realize its i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-i-l-i-t-y.
     
  23. Zarkov Banned Banned

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    657
    >> But failed to realize its i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-i-l-i-t-y.

    You are right when the brotherhood are all chronically toxic metal p o i s o n e d, as is the human race today, and back in Roman times.

    Socrates was the first to question the decay in humanity.....Diogenies later searched Athens, Greece, naked in a wine barrel ... searching by day with a lit oil lamp... he never found a real human being ( one with empathy and a clean conscience)... they were all extinct by then

    IMPOSSIBLE.... NO NOT IMPOSSIBLE... but the mental state of the highest life form must be cleansed before any progress can come about.
    This is the impossible task.... humans will kill the planet long before this can be achieved.

    Time to create a splinter group, devoted to Stoicism, conscience and clean air food and water....... an ark for the future.

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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2004

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