Egyptian girl strips to protest; western media censors her photos

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by S.A.M., Nov 20, 2011.

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  1. adoucette

    adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Not mine.

    Except for sanitary issues, which is why I'm against her going around with no panties on, I could care less if she goes topless.

    But that's me.

    The society that I live in says that a Bikini is the minimum required for women and something akin to a speedo for men is the minimum required legal attire.

    Although restaurants and such can deny you service if you don't meet their dress code, as in Galatoires on Bourbon street.

    http://www.galatoires.com/

    Arthur
     
    adoucette, Nov 21, 2011
    #101

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  3. Anti-Flag

    Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

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    Of course, but sometimes that's allowed.

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    Anti-Flag, Nov 21, 2011
    #102

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  5. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    That's obviously a bit batshit, but I do know that a lot of complaining about women not "covering up" is done by women, not men. At least in the corporate world. At least in my experience.

    The complaint ratio in Human Resources about female dress code violations originates about 10 to 1 from the female gender - just don't seem to have much of a problem with men objecting to women showing too much flesh. A western perspective, admittedly...

    I wonder if the Daily Mail has many women subscribers that might influence this sort of "censorship"? They may, ahem, tend to not be quite so, err, "fresh" looking as the protester in the OP. As Mac mentioned, she barely looks of age, regardless of how available her bio may be. In some circumstances that causes a bit of ire from the, ummm, more "matronly" appearing sector...

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    Randwolf, Nov 21, 2011
    #103

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  7. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    I think we are.

    As a woman, I see it quite clearly.

    You mean a society that blanked out a woman's nipples and a society that had a hissy fit because a performer flashed a nipple on stage or the society that deemed a woman's cleavage was inappropriate for a children's show?

    How about a society that deems women responsible if wear a mini skirt and are raped? That kind of society? The kind of society that thinks anything revealing on a woman or about a woman, yes, even her eyes, is deemed inappropriate because well, men might feel the sudden urge to fuck her without her consent. That society? That is the society we live in. You live in it as well.

    We are?

    Heh, could have fooled me. You only have to read through the countless rape threads on this forum to see just how many people deemed the woman responsible if she is raped if she behaved in a manner that was not ladylike (ie was drunk, asleep, passed out from alcohol, dressed in a certain manner, date rape, etc). Just ask Signal.

    Or any other country on earth.

    Perry and Sesame Street is a prime example.

    Do you know why there are nude protests and nude PETA, etc? Because it shocks and people react to them because people are so unused to nudity in society in general.

    Tell that to the woman who was humiliated and abused by a judge for breastfeeding in the public gallery of a courtroom because her behaviour was "inappropriate" or women who are abused for breastfeeding in public because they are showing some boob. Or Perry for having ample breasts and unfortunately having cleavage on a children's TV show. Or the porn star who participated in a nation wide activity to get children to read, by going to read to a bunch of 7th graders and the parents were up in arms about how inappropriate that is.. because apparently, 7th graders who did not even know who she is were being tainted by her presence in the classroom. I don't think you quite realise how increasingly prudish society is becoming.

    I meant naked in public. How about at a beach? What if you saw topless women sitting at a beachside cafe eating lunch?

    But you did not really answer the question, did you? We know how limiting the Saudis are, as well as many other countries. We know they deny women their rights. No one is denying that. No one is saying it is right. Sam isn't. So bringing it up again and again adds nothing to this discussion. We are talking about a so called liberal Western society fuzzing out nipples of a girl who is protesting against the restrictive society she lives in by posing nude. And in response to that, we fuzz out her nipples. The irony is hilarious. Yet, here you are, instead of discussing why the media decided to do this in the West, bring up Muslim block countries that this girl was protesting against and about. Do you see the irony of your argument?

    I'll make it simple for you. Why do you think the Western media blanked out her nipples?

    One would expect the media to provide a link to the blog they were reporting on. But why did they blank out her nipples in the photo they showed in the story?

    But they wouldn't have. That's the thing. The West has an issue with nudity and showing nudity to the public. This is just a further reiteration of that. Because nipples are apparently offensive.
     
    Bells, Nov 21, 2011
    #104
  8. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    I would say it is probably half and half for those who do protest or find it objectionable if a woman shows too much flesh.

    She looks like a young woman. I really do not think the blanking or protest about her image had anything to do with her age though, do you?

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    I think many of the men here may still be, ermm, cleaning up after her bikini shot she once posted briefly.

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    Bells, Nov 21, 2011
    #105
  9. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Not quite, Bells. Nipples can be titillating (pun intended after typing that) and titillation is offensive to the western world.

    I especially love the insane dichotomy apparent in the acceptance of exposure to violence coupled with prudish objection to nudity, whether intended to be of a sexual nature or not. Absurd...
     
    Randwolf, Nov 21, 2011
    #106
  10. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Ya know, all kidding aside, I do actually believe that has at least something to do with it. There seems to be an inverse correlation between the potential sexuality inherent in an image and the likelihood of it being published "uncensored". E.g. naked babies (to a certain age) are OK, nude corpses of holocaust victims are OK, etc. I would dare say that the more attractive the nude subject might be considered by the general populace, the less likely that naked renditions will be accepted. (And no, I am not saying that underage is a prerequisite, but rather youth and good health may be)

    If you can see this pattern at all, wouldn't you concur that some publications seem to censor based on some sort of "titillation" scale?
     
    Randwolf, Nov 21, 2011
    #107
  11. spidergoat

    spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    There is no shortage of western media outlets that show nude people. It's hardly the same kind of censorship evidenced in Islamic countries. Especially when considering places that show art. I walked into an art gallery opening here in Portland where some performance artists were just going around naked.
     
    spidergoat, Nov 21, 2011
    #108
  12. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, there are tons of belly dancers in Egypt and porn and prostitutes and all manner of symbols of women who conform to social expectations of the boxes that women should live within - but there are few women who challenge boundaries of social appropriateness outside those spheres and even fewer women who act on it. This is not just for girls like Aliaa, the titillation aspect as Rand puts it, of the independent woman asserting her identity rather than her sexuality is very often a matter that comes before the court of public appeal, whether it is the stoning of women in the Suffragette movement, the constant struggle for women to maintain the right to have an abortion or the bra burning feminism of the 60s.

    Why do more women than men commit suicide in Indiaand in Saudi Arabia? Why are the rape statistics so horrendous even in "advanced" nations ? Do women not know how to say no in other countries?

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes

    Yes there is tons of "muslim porn" on the net. But Aliaa is not promoting herself as a porn artist. She is promoting herself as a person - that is what is threatening to the patriarchial system. Not some T&A
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011
    S.A.M., Nov 21, 2011
    #109
  13. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    .

    Are men's nipples titillating?

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    What do you think? Do we need pasties here?

    Yeah there is that

    Look the tortured naked man has a penis! Must cover penis. How awful if someone saw a penis on a tortured naked man

    Moderator warning: image of torture follows. Click at your own risk.

    http://0.tqn.com/d/middleeast/1/0/w/7/-/-/abu-ghraib-torture-22.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2011
    S.A.M., Nov 21, 2011
    #110
  14. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Wow. I think this is unprecedented - I am 100% in agreement with you. Absolutely absurd.

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    What an odd world we live in...
     
    Randwolf, Nov 21, 2011
    #111
  15. Michael

    Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Why would panties make her more 'saniary'? I mean, we don't wear panties around our mouth holes

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    yes some germs are spread, but, we survive

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    Michael, Nov 21, 2011
    #112
  16. Michael

    Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I don't see anything wrong with Aliaa or any other woman showing herself nude. It's her body. Can she do so in public? Well, she can in some social spheres. Public hot baths were always nude. There's still many nude beaches in Europe. Taking a dump in a doorless stall in China, that used to be (is) common is some areas.

    I'm not sure what Aliaa's point is, but, I certainly think she has the right to photograph herself nude. It's in her own god damn house! No one HAS to click on over to her website.


    What role does Abrahamic religious values play in reinforcing the oppression of women? Any? The only reason this photo is garnishing any attention is because she's "Muslim" to conservative Muslims (because you're basically 'born' Muslim) and it peeves conservative Muslims off that "one of their's" dares show herself nude to someone other than her owner: brother, father or husband. Interestingly Ms. Elmahdy describes herself as atheist. She's living with her boyfriend who was sentenced to prison for criticizing Islam and that ex douche' of a president. She certainly pushing more than just the boundaries of female sexuality, she's pushing against the entire religious-aspect of Egyptian culture. All in All, a positive sign that the youth (in Egypt at least) don't suck so bad as they do elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011
    Michael, Nov 21, 2011
    #113
  17. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What does she think of the news media in the west censoring her? It was an awfully brave step she took and it was categorically dismissed by the media who airbrushed away her stance. I think she is still young and idealistic. Life will change that
     
    S.A.M., Nov 21, 2011
    #114
  18. wynn

    wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Then why are you doing it?
     
    wynn, Nov 21, 2011
    #115
  19. wynn

    wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know if she should, but she apparently does care what others think or believe.
     
    wynn, Nov 21, 2011
    #116
  20. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not. I'm questioning people on their supposed stance on freedom of expression. If people state they have such a stance then they should be able to prove it. If you're airbrushing nipples like the Saudis are airbrushing shoulders and necks, then I don't think the claim of freedom of expression is justified
     
    S.A.M., Nov 21, 2011
    #117
  21. wynn

    wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    You are.

    This:

    is an act of applying your morality to others.
     
    wynn, Nov 21, 2011
    #118
  22. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    No It has NOTHING to do with morality. I don't care if they make her wear a burqa, but if they do, then they should acknowledge that nudity offends them, just to a different degree than the Saudis.

    Arab woman: I strip to show that nudity is not obscene

    News media: I support your stance! Oh wait, I see nipples and pubic hair [airbrushes nipples and pubic hair] Now I support your stance!
     
    S.A.M., Nov 21, 2011
    #119
  23. wynn

    wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Why should they?
     
    wynn, Nov 21, 2011
    #120
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