Early technique in cutting stones

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by arauca, Jan 11, 2012.

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  1. arauca Banned Banned

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    What sort of technology used the Egyptian and others to make rectangular blocks to make walls or pyramids

    I have seen in Mexico pyramids with rectangular blocks and also some more primitive pyramids with not cut block .

    Any idea how the technology was transferred from Middle east to Central America
     
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  3. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    It probably wasn't transferred, but arose spontaneously in both places.
     
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  5. wlminex Banned Banned

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    r-e-p-e-t-i-t-i-o-u-s . . . . . s-l-o-w . . . . rubbing of 'rocks-on-rocks' will create flat (and tight-fit, matched) surfaces on each half of the rock pair . . . . a mutual grinding, abrasive process
     
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  7. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, this article on pyramids in latin america says that the construction methods of the south american pyramids is completely different than that used by the Egyptians.

    The S.A. pyramids were a central core of dirt and rubble, held by retaining walls, which were then faced with stone, while the Egyptian pyramids were constructed of granite and limestone blocks.
     
  8. river Valued Senior Member

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    yet the precision of the blocks and stone remains the same
     
  9. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Try the link below (very detailed)

    http://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/stone-cutting.html
     
  10. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    Good link, though he gets a few details a bit off. Alabaster is not a hard stone - something like 3.5 on Mohs scale, can be cut with bronze and worked with agate or quartz points. The "widia" he mentions as being "as hard as diamonds" is so because it is diamonds - diamond powder in a silver solder. These days it is readily available in diamond saw blades where it is cast into notches on the saw blades.

    Yeah, stone on stone hand lapping is how to face those big blocks, tedious but obviously doable. The remote predecessor of the current technique we use to face big telescope mirrors. Also, meteor iron wasn't that scarce - all of the classic kris blades were made from meteor iron and there are quite a few of those kicking around still. Further, pig iron can be carbonized and greatly strengthened by repeated folding and forging, like how Samurai katana were traditionally made. The resulting steel is extremely strong yet not brittle and holds a fine edge.
     
  11. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    It seems there is a lot of speculation about what kind of iron/steel tools they might have had. But they do know about how many blacks the pyramid had and how long it took to complete the pyramid. That tells them the frequently that each block was installed. I don't remember what that time was, but I do remember it wasn't much, which means they were producing blocks at a very good rate. So however you look at it, the tools they had were doing quite well.
     
  12. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

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    Ask whoever made puma puncu in Bolivia alot of the cookie cutter responses work with limestone as its quite easy to modify.. but dyrite on the other hand.. not so much. And they had drills also!
     
  13. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Great video below. I'm stumped and the alien theory is looking better all the time.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Great Pyramids vs Puma Punku
     
  14. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    :roll:

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    Egyptian Diorite Vases.

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    Egyptian diorite statue.

    There's nothing mystical about being able to work diorite. There are, however, a lot of misconceptions about it.
     
  15. michael_taylor Registered Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure any modern stonemason who works on restoring cathedrals could make those blocks with the one of the many copper chisels found at Egyptian sites. Maybe take a day or so to adapt.

    It's much more labor intensive than modern cutting, because you're basically sculpting a big cuboid by chipping bits off, and copper alloy blunts and bends so fast you need them re-forged daily.

    But it can and has been done.

    Now imagine you have an entire population who think you're a a god and you have implemented slave labor on an industrial scale.
     
  16. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    There's a big difference between a little art work and doing precession cutting of blocks that weigh over 100 tons.
     
  17. river Valued Senior Member

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  18. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Not so much as you might think. There's nothing that can't be scaled up, and the only thing you really need to work Diorite is more diorite (of at least equal hardness).


    Incidentally, it is my... Recollection that the construction at Puma Punku is Andesite and Red Sand Stone - not Diorite (I'm sure I've had this conversation before) the largest blocks at the site are red sandstone.

    Andesite ranges in hardness from 3 to 5 on Moh's Scale of hardness, which means that Apatite can be used to carve all but the hardest andesites.

    I've pointed out previously that Quartz and Corundum are also harder than Diorite (and so would suffice to work it, as well as Diorite itself), and that with about a days work you can make a 1cm deep incision in quartz, that is 1mm wide using only another piece of quartz and a toothpick.
     
  19. river Valued Senior Member

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    so how many days would it take to carve out a 70ton block ?
     
  20. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Show me anything that suggests a requirement for a 70 ton block to be anything other than rough hewn and then subsequently worked?

    As for how long it would take? That depends on a number of things.

    For example, how long it would take to carve out a 70 ton block of what? (remember, Puma punku is sand stone and andesite).
    It depends on what you're using to do the working.
    It also depends on how much pressure you can apply.
     
  21. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Did you read the article posted by river? How do you account for the precision involved and the reason why such precision would even be needed, considering how much extra effort and expense are needed to affect that level of precision?
     
  22. river Valued Senior Member

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    thats not what I asked


    of granite from a quarry

    I'm still in Eygpt , pyramids
     
  23. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Yes. I can't say I was terribly impressed by it though.

    You're demanding that I speculate on the motivations of people that lived thousands of years ago?

    Okay, so here's my speculation.

    Puma Punku was was a temple, and the precision was important to them at a spiritual level.
     
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