Dutch PM on trial for hate speech

Geert Wilders, a right-wing Dutch MP, has appeared in an Amsterdam court on charges of inciting hatred against Muslims.

The Freedom Party leader is standing trial after a court overruled a decision by the public prosecutor, who had argued Wilders was protected by the right to free speech.

He told the court on Wednesday that the trial showed that the right to freedom of speech was at risk in The Netherlands.

"I believe in my heart and soul that freedom in the Netherlands is being threatened," Wilders said.

"It is not only our right, but our obligation as free people to speak out against every ideology that restricts freedom."

Defence lawyers have argued that the court does not have the constitutional right to put the MP on trial, but the prosecutor said Wilders' remarks must be tested against the "existing legal framework".

If convicted, Wilders would face a maximum sentence of 15 months in jail.

Wilders supporters staged demonstrations outside the court, holding banners saying "Freedom Yes" and "Stop the Islamisation of Europe".

An anti-racism group has also responded to the trial by placing 100 comments from Wilders online to back up its allegations that the MP is guilty of inciting immigrant hate and discrimination.

Wilders has become one of the Netherland's leading politicians, with his party emerging last year as the country's second-largest party in the European Parliament.

Recent polls have also indicated the Freedom Party stands a chance to become the largest in the Dutch Parliament in national elections due in May 2011.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/01/201012094532873241.html

If convicted won't this strengthen the nationalist movement which has already taken hold of the country and prove his point which is that they have indeed lost their freedom of speech?

Does anyone think he should be jailed for his documentary Fitna?

I always looked at Fitna as a bad documentary, quite simply the points he made wrongly frame extremism as Islam but a badly made documentary isn't a crime.

 

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I thought he was just being a little sarcastic.

 

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What "constitution" are you talking about, Bells? Does the Netherlands have a national "constitution"? And if so, what does it say about all this freedom of speech issue? You seem to know, so can you tell us?

Where did he "incite" violence? I didn't see that anywhere. Where did he "incite violence" ....specifically violence, not just dislike or hate?

And inciting hatred? Is that illegal in the laws of the Netherlands? Again, Bells, you seem to know the law, so please tell us. Now the Dutch can't even hate people that they want to hate? Seems pretty damned restrictive to me!

Baron Max

 

Well how has he exactly done so? Would you have said that the Danish cartoonist also stirred up hatred just because those in neighboring countries felt as if he had? They have to prove that he has actually broken the law because from what I understand they haven't really established that fact.

You know in the US the nation of islam is lead by a man named Farrakhan who makes bigoted statements about gays, jews and whites. One of his famous quotes is "White people are potential humans - they haven't evolved yet." No one accuses him of hate speech.

Here we have this PM who is asking for a halt to muslim immigration. I ask why is that racist? There is a problem with integration in their country. I spoke to a Duth couple the other day who are here on vacation and they also don't see any point in bringing in any more muslims until they have established a program for integration.

What about Theo Van Gogh (yes a relative of van gogh) the film maker and writer was stabbed to death by a muslim because some muslims were offended by his book 'Allah', after his murder the Dutch Complaints Bureau for Discrimination on the Internet received many complaints about websites praising the murder and making death threats against other people. Is it this kind of hatred that Wilders is being accused of inciting? Wilders didn't create the problem between Dutch society and muslims it was already there and he was addressing what he felt were concerns or fears. Why is that wrong? I mean the problem with this is that if they do not halt immigration and force integration then you WILL have a right wing nationalist backlash that will grow ever larger. All he has done is say out loud what everyone else was thinking. I mean what do you think is going to happen when the freedom party wins a majority vote? To bring up allusions of Hitler is incorrect unless you are saying that even to think of halting immigration amounts to exterminating them altogether. They are having this same discussion in England and France. Denmark has already added incredible immigration restrictions and it affects mostly muslims. Why because there was so much anger after the cartoonist attack that they fear the response of their own population against other muslims, better to deal with the problems they presently have than compound them by bringing in more!

Its not his immigration policy that angered muslims but his statements about the islamification of the netherlands and his mistrust of Islam because of the spread of radical extremists. If his sentiments are hate speech then please someone clue Michael because he wouldn't be able to say anything critical of Islam! Is that the world we are reaching for? What do you think will happen when this get's underway? "The British National Party (BNP) has joined forces with far-right groups in a new European Alliance of National Movements." Read the article http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8356284.stm

Being all PC and putting ones head in the sand will not solve this problem to the contrary it will only make the resistance even more intense!

Personally the only thing I would have had him re-think is this:

* The present Article 1 of the Dutch constitution, guaranteeing equality under the law, will be replaced by a clause stating the cultural dominance of the Christian, Jewish and humanist traditions.

I have no problem with any of his other suggestions unless of course you have some better suggestions to curb the spread of radical islam. I mean at least he has the balls to come up with a plan?

Anyone else out there got a plan?

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What I find truly interesting, as well as somewhat humorous, is that many nations that are in place in the world today had their beginnings in revolutions that began in much the same way ...some with those very principles being stated.

Indeed. However, I suppose the more appropriate word would be "eroded" ....all over the world, in all free nations, the right of freedom of speech is being eroded slowly but surely. I think it's happening so slowly that we haven't fully noticed it yet.

Perhaps we're at the leading edge of a great revolution and we can all sit back and watch history unfold right before our eyes on CNN.

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Baron Max

 

I agree. 'Eroded' is correct word to use.

You know in china your above statement is considered a curse 'may you live in interesting times'. It is unfolding and the PC brigade are playing pin the tail on the donkey while Wilders has simply taken off the blindfold!

 

Wow, the Netherlands is in a poor state. A native pointing out a danger to their people, and posing possible solutions, puts them at the very real risk of a jail sentence. It's like having a shady bunch of characters in your house eying your silverware, and getting lambasted when you express your concerns to your family.

 

Funny but true.

 

yeah, and to think they killed native americans for even less.

 

Not to disagree with the assertion that we killed my Native Americans, but ...what the hell does that have to do with the topic?

Surely you don't think that early Americans gave the Native Americans any of the Constitutional rights of citizens, do you? As I see it, that's the only way your statment makes any sense at all ...and very little at that.

Baron Max

 

Numerous revolutions began in much the same way.

Baron Max

 

Not my point. The empathy for the 'victimized' is often so oddly ahistorical, so localized.....so easy. Without ever really having acknowledged vastly worse patterns, the lighter versions are passionately objected to. Some people skip steps.

But note...

your objection to my post holds against mordea's.

He(?) seems not to have noticed who also LIVES in the house and has been granted citizenship.

 

You do need to remember that the Dutch were their first and it is their country, and not the Muslims'.

Just thought I'd throw that in, because you are criticizing him as if his desire to protect his country is absurd.

 

No. I mean, protect the native culture and custom of his country. Muslims don't pose a 'threat to society', but in a country like the Netherlands, they do pose a threat to Dutch native culture.

 

Oh, really? And just how do you manage to mentally separate a country's society from it's native culture? Impossible.