Dust belt around Saturn

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by timojin, Nov 19, 2016.

  1. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    Why the particles around Saturn have not coalesced or aggregated ?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    Firstly some of the material in the rings around Saturn do clump into moonlets, some a few Kms across, plus of course, materials from some rings were previous moons in their own right, until they were affected by Saturn itself. .
    Saturn's rings are made of ice, rock as well as dust.
    Saturn also has what are known as shepherd moons whose gravity maintains the distinction to certain rings and at the same time prevents other material from other rings etc from merging with that ring....
    We also have what is known as the Roche limit.[see first point]
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    I have the impression the material in the rings is becoming smaller due to friction and collision is fragmenting into smaller particles
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,959
    The very succinct answer is that the rings are near or inside Saturn's Roche Limit.

    Every massive body has a Roche Limit. This is a distance, out from the planet, within which the tidal forces are strong enough to tear any solid body into smaller chunks.

    Saturn's rings cannot form a moon. One theory is that Saturn's rings were once a moon that got torn to bits by its tidal forces.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
    exchemist likes this.
  8. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    • Pointless one-liner dismissals of science without argument or evidence are inappropriate in our Science forums. Please avoid.
    Yes well , antiquated theories .
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    Some smaller, some bigger and some smaller again after more collisions and being at or near the Roche limit.
     
  10. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,232
    Such as the antiquated theory that the Earth is broadly spherical. What do you consider about the theory that lacks current validity?
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,959
    Oh god. Don't feed it.
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    river has been warned for dismissing science in the Science forums, without providing any argument or explanation.

    Owing to accumulated warning points, he is now on a 1 day break from sciforums.
     
    exchemist likes this.
  13. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
     
  14. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    As you presented the Roche limit . Our satellites and the Russian space station are within the Roche limit , are they due to destroy themselves ? or to say they life is limited , because of it ?
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    Structures we have in space are not big enough to have any substantial gravity field and of course the Roche limit is a result of tidal gravitational effects in the main. For any man made object, those tidal effects are negligible.
     
  16. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
     
  17. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    Is it by that argument the Saturn belt is permanent . So why the Kuiper belt have not coalesced into a massive structure ?
     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    ?? Do you understand timojin?
    Think of the tides on Earth....The Oceans on the side of the Earth facing the Moon is pulled towards the Moon far stronger then the Earth itself, while the Oceans on the far side are pulled less then the Earth.
    On large bodies such tension can make them crumble or fail to coalesce as per Saturn's rings.
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    I don't believe Saturn's rings are permanent, and the Kuiper Belt is composed of reasonably large bodies and dwarf planets, and the rest consists mainly of icy objects.
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    The following article may explain more......

    http://www.universetoday.com/112464/why-isnt-the-asteroid-belt-a-planet/

    WHY ISN’T THE ASTEROID BELT A PLANET?

    It seems like there’s a strange gap in between Mars and Jupiter filled with rocky rubble. Why didn’t the asteroid belt form into a planet, like the rest of the Solar System?

    Beyond the orbit of Mars lies the asteroid belt its a vast collection of rocks and ice, leftover from the formation of the solar system. It starts about 2 AU, ends around 4 AU. Objects in the asteroid belt range from tiny pebbles to Ceres at 950 km across.

    Star Wars and other sci-fi has it all wrong. The objects here are hundreds of thousand of kilometers apart. There’d be absolutely no danger or tactical advantage to flying your spacecraft through it.

    To begin with, there actually isn’t that much stuff in the asteroid belt. If you were to take the entire asteroid belt and form it into a single mass, it would only be about 4% of the mass of our Moon. Assuming a similar density, it would be smaller than Pluto’s moon Charon.

    There’s a popular idea that perhaps there was a planet between Mars and Jupiter that exploded, or even collided with another planet. What if most of the debris was thrown out of the solar system, and the asteroid belt is what remains?

    We know this isn’t the case for a few of reasons. First, any explosion or collision wouldn’t be powerful enough to throw material out of the Solar System. So if it were a former planet we’d actually see more debris.

    Second, if all the asteroid belt bits came from a single planetary body, they would all be chemically similar. The chemical composition of Earth, Mars, Venus, etc are all unique because they formed in different regions of the solar system. Likewise, different asteroids have different chemical compositions, which means they must have formed in different regions of the asteroid belt.


    In fact, when we look at the chemical compositions of different asteroids we see that they can be grouped into different families, with each having a common origin. This gives us a clue as to why a planet didn’t form where the asteroid belt is.

    If you arrange all the asteroids in order of their average distance from the Sun, you find they aren’t evenly distributed. Instead you find a bunch, then a gap, then a bunch more, then another gap, and so on. These gaps in the asteroid belt are known as Kirkwood gaps, and they occur at distances where an orbit would be in resonance with the orbit of Jupiter.

    Jupiter’s gravity is so strong, that it makes asteroid orbits within the Kirkwood gaps unstable. It’s these gaps that prevented a single planetary body from forming in that region. So, because of Jupiter, asteroids formed into families of debris, rather than a single planetary body.


     
  21. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    I am not sure if the water is pooled or is it depressed as it passed by the moon side. High water on the shore is usually at night by day the level is lover.
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    Not true...High tide can occur anytime.
     
  23. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    Are you not are contradicting yourself ?
     

Share This Page