'Dubai hit squad stole my identity': British man's name used by assassins who execute

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Brian Foley, Feb 16, 2010.

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  1. otheadp Banned Banned

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    What's the marijuana leaf for? Sarcasm? I hope not...

    The lie of "2 states for 2 peoples" is good enough for me. But wanting 2 countries is not the same as wanting one country with an apartheid system.

    Visit Israel and you'll see that that's how it is. It isn't perfect, but it's certainly not the terrible conflict that it's painted as in the media.

    That's simply false. Man, I don't know what sort of connection you have to Israel but this is simply false. My earlier point reinforced: no matter how much you think you know about Israel, you don't know, unless you've lived there or at LEAST visited ... not as a tourist but maybe a kibbutz volunteer for a few months or something. And dismissing the ancient Jewish history as "mythology" like it's just some kind of fairy tales... that's more than rude, but I won't start calling you names.

    I wonder what it says about apartheid then? You know, the US has Arab and Muslim soldiers. So does that mean the US is "apartheid"?

    Well, let's here these options. As for real compromise... how about real risks such as arming the PLO's newly formed at the time "police force" when the PA was just being set up, only to see the weapons given to them be used to to kill Israeli civilians later on. Or how about evacuating Gaza and forcing thousands of Israelis there from their homes with army battalions, handing over agricultural infrastructure to Hamas, only to see that space transformed into rocket launching pads... and then have Olmert offer the greatest offer ever to the PA...

    It all rests with the Arabs' and Muslims' underlying anti-Zionist desires. If only that changed, the details can be worked out. Israelis know what's expected of them and for a real genuine peace they're willing to bite the bullet.

    Doesn't help ours either.

    Well, let's hear them then.

    And by the way, I am more on the inside, as you say, than other Canadians, let's say, but I've lived in Canada my teen/adult life and I get the "international" perspective, which is why I'm much softer on the Arab side than they deserve. But yes, in the end I am very much pro-Israel.

    That is Israel's obligation to the world, and that is what Israelis have been bitching and moaning about for decades, demanding their government to move their asses and make peace. This is the current course, but in the end it would have to involve Hamas too.

    In the current climate I don't think peace will happen. All these "indirect talks" nonsense will lead to nowhere, yet again. Only once Iran's influence is curtailed can there be meaningful negotiations. This is tied to Iran's nuclear program and other things. Hizballah as well. It's very complex. Let's not forget Syria who was caught building a nuclear reactor a few years ago and got it bombed by the IAF.

    Read this report from Ha'aretz... it's partially about Iran's involvement in Hamas, and about how regional fights influence the "palestinian" situation.

    http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1153621.html
     
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  3. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Does weed not make you peaceful and loving?

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    Until Palestinians have a state and full self determination or are equal citizens in one state, there is oppression, apartheid or both.
    I know that.
    Are most Israelis Mizrahim?
    Pardon no disrespect intended. I am secular.
    The river runs deep, no doubt.
    Why were Israelis settled on this land to start with? Unless illegal settlements stop there is obviously a problem around trust.
    There is clearly a vicious circle involved. Here is an immediate plan to change anti Israeli attitudes. 1. Lift the blockade and recognize HAMAS as the legitimate political representative of Gaza. 2. Stop all illegal settlements in their tracks.
    The above two points as well as a willingness to revisit this Map.
    Like I said, major compromise.
    OK. Believe it or not I am also pro Israel, but not at the expense of injustice to the Palestinians.
    Yes, of course.
    At least they are attempts.
    Its clear that Israel has made some enemies along the way. This is a two way street. If you live by the sword, etc.
    Its regrettable that HAMAS cannot get their act together.
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    A Mossad case officer is not "evidence" enough for you?

    So Israel allows for the intermingling and intermarriage of Arabs and Jews?

    Are you telling me that an Israeli Jew is allowed to marry a Palestinian Arab who is not Jewish in Israel?
     
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  7. otheadp Banned Banned

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    Take a closer look at my name again...

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    This mess was made and perpetuated by the Arabs, and now Israel's supposed to fix it at her own expense. It's so unfair --- but we accept it, given the fanaticism of our dear neighbourhood. We only want a negotiation partner that is fully committed to a just solution for both sides. Hamas and its backers are not on board. The status quo is the only unfortunate result.

    I don't really know. Probably not. Why did you bring that up?

    -The land was barren and with barely any inhabitants. We came and developed it into an oasis in the desert.
    -Those inhabitants who were there, some were Jewish.
    -Jewish nationalism.
    -Jewish connection to the land. Jerusalem (Zion -- or "Tsiyon") is mentioned by name, explicitly, in our prayer books about a billion times (but not even once in the Qur'an or other religious Muslim books), Jews built Jerusalem, in Passover, which is the oldest uninterrupted ritual in existence right now, every year we say "next year we'll celebrate in Jerusalem". This has been proclaimed annually for thousands of years, year after year!
    -The Brits, the legal "administrators" of the land after WW1 promised this land to the Jews.
    -The UN bequeathed this land to us in 1947. (Those last 2 points provide the legal basis)

    Man, there are countless reasons, justice based, moral, legal, religious (notice I put the "religious" last), for the existence of Israel. What you claim to be "illegal settlements" is in fact a political statement, not a legal statement. I don't need to remind you the West's dependence on Muslim oil and fear of terrorism, the UN's structure, and other political currents pushing for ridiculous resolutions.

    Hamas is the de-facto ruler of Gaza, and is treated as such. You think Israel hasn't tried to talk to them... I bet you don't even know, but Hamas "press agents" are regularly interviewed by the Israeli press in newspapers and even TV interviews. They're giving them a platform from which to let them spin spin spin. Their press arm is sending disinformation to Israelis while their military arm is bombing kindergartens in Sderot. It's mind boggling... there is plenty of dialogue. They have to renounce their goal of Israel's destruction and their tactic of bombing Israeli towns before there can be any dialogue. And even if there is dialogue, what shall we talk to them about???

    As for "illegal settlements", they consider Tel Aviv an "illegal settlement".

    HA! Not happening my friend. Maybe to placate them we should give them Tel Aviv too! Major compromise etc...
    I'd like to see people press them to do "major compromise".

    Actually it's good. See, Hamas-Gaza are more pragmatic, because as fanatical as they are, they still have to live there. But Hamas-Damascus, who live in plush comfy residences paid for by Iranian and Syrian taxpayers live in an ideological world and are far more extreme. But who is more extreme than them? The Iranian government. They push Hamas-Damascus to continue "the good fight", and Hamas-Damascus pushes Hamas-Gaza in the same direction. The article points to some sort of rift between the pure ideological wing and the more pragmatic wing within Hamas. If the split actually occurs then it's more likely that Hamas will reconcile with Fatah, and the ideologues in Damascus and Iran will have no apparatus on the ground in Gaza.

    Though the "pragmatic" part of Hamas is still far more fanatical than Fatah who are being very far from reasonable and compromising.

    A long way to go.

    I am also a Mossad case officer and I'm telling you there is no such factory. There's your evidence.

    Dude, I don't think you're a lawyer at all, making conclusions based on the contents of that article. Of course Mossad has a passport factory, but where's the hard evidence?

    Yes and yes.
    The suggestion in your question that the Israeli government regulate personal relationships like that is idiotic and shows huge ignorance on your part. It further reinforces my point - as much as you THINK you know about Israel, you don't. Visit there and see for yourself.
     
  8. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Ah. This is good. :m:
    OK. But Israel does not even recognize HAMAS. Thus the status quo.
    Correct.
    They (G_d bless them) represent native Jews. Thus historically legitimate residents in line with Palestinians IMO.
    I specifically meant Israeli settlements in Gaza, which was illegal in the first instance even though the gov condoned it. Hence the heartbreak in moving the settlers out.
    I have no issue with the original Israeli lands promised to Jewish settlers. Everyone needs and deserves a place to call home.
    I appreciate these thoughts but the two points are clearly fundamental in perpetuating peace. And understandably so.
    De Facto? HAMAS are also the democratically elected government of Gaza, however Israel refuses to acknowledge the fact. So how does Israel try to talk to them if they do not acknowledge them?
    Its undoubtedly complex. I get very upset when kids are targeted.
    This is the crucial issue, and one which I understand and agree with. At some point the past has to be placed aside for the future of young Palestinians (as well as Israelis)
    That is why I repeatedly say major compromise from both parties. I would suggest that given who breaks the most ceasefires, Israel would need to demonstrate integrity and commitment, if a swing in attitude is expected.
    The road ahead. And I understand its easier said than done.
    They are going to have to get over that. But that is what detente, dialogue and compromise is all about. Beats field hospitals any day.
    Heh. I though I may get that reaction.

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    Take note, I said "revisit". Not free for all.
    Think positive friend.
    Good insight. Unity is so vitally important its really frustrating to see this divisive crap going down. But a long walk to freedom has been done before, so it can be done again.

    Good talking to you friend.
     
  9. otheadp Banned Banned

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    When Jews were banished by the Romans we were scattered all over. There has been millenia of changes but we are one people. Sure, there are intra-Jewish problems going on, but ask any Mizrakhi and he'll say what I'm saying right now.

    Democracy is not one day when you cast ballots. Democracy is state institutions, the rule of law, and governing by legislation, not by torture and by violent militias that execute their supposed subjects with out due process. Oh, and by the way, Hamas conducted a very violent and illegal coup d'état in Gaza against the PA - the "Palestinian Authority" - the single and exclusive body through which "palestinians" get to elect a government. There are different parties which may compete in the framework under the PA. Instead, Hamas shot the PA peoples' knee caps and threw them off of buildings, among other things, and kicked them out of Gaza. That's what the "reconciliation" talks would be about, to bring them back under the umbrella of the PA. There is nothing legal or democratic about Hamas.

    Likewise! I don't remember the last time I had a nice talk like this about The Issue, and I've been here for quite a while.
     
  10. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    Its just a religion. their aren't any other commonalities. and meeting of objectuive standards as one people ended with the babylonians kicking the jews out.


    Democracy is also letting all the population vote not just the ones you want.
    more bullshit. Hamas won fair and square.
    any proof? though hamas got rid of them because fatah was working with Israel to do a coup.
    they got kicked out because Fatah couldn't handle the loss of power and ISrael didn't want to deal with someone with a backbone.
    well except for the fact they were voted in during a legal election.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    So now you're a Mossad case officer.

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    And "dude", I think you're full of shit. But that's beside the point of this discussion.


    And you are attempting to deny what is blatantly obvious to the rest of the world.

    You're the apparent Mossad case officer, and you just admitted it yourself.

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    As a so called self confessed Mossad case officer and a Jew, you seem to have a complete lack of knowledge of the laws of Israel.

    So you are saying that a Jew and an Arab non Jew (eg a Palestinian) can walk into a court room or have a justice of the peace marry them in Israel? Are you absolutely sure about that Oth?

    Not only does the Israeli Government regulate personal relationships "like that", but Israel does not even allow civil marriages to occur in Israel, in that civil marriage does not exist in Israel. For example, if a Jewish individual wanted to marry outside of their faith (as in the other individual did not convert but wish to remain whatever religion they happened to be), they would not be allowed to marry in Israel and would have to go abroad to marry.

    Ergo, you ignorant little twit, an Israeli Jew, cannot by law, marry a Palestinian in Israel. They would have to travel overseas to marry because the laws in Israel do not allow them to marry in Israel unless one converted.

    Maybe it is time for you to visit Israel and see for yourself.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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  13. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    the very fact he made that claim kinda of proves he isn't. No intelligence agent is going to ever admit it.


    I have also come across things that if your not a member of the right kind of judiadism you can't get married in Israel.
     
  14. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    I still saw no proof what so ever linking Israel to this other then some insane antisemitic statements and one loony cop.
     
  15. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    anitsemitic statements? what antisemitic statements.? critcism of Israel is not anti semitism and despite your delusions Israel isn't the jewish people.
     
  16. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    so the name Israel was invented later on:
     
  17. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    ??? you rambling crazy religious BS again. the state of Israel is not all jews. I know you want it to be true but its not.

    and your evidence doesn't prove your BS asseration.
     
  18. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    The name Israel originated long before the state of Israel. Even if its not all Jews, it does represent all Jews.

    So, you know what I want how? did you use some secret mind reading device? I'm sure there is a law against that.
     
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    No it doesn't. That's the same kind of logic anti semites use to bash jews. Israel while a reflection of jewish thought on the whole doesn't represent all jews. In fact non Israeli jews have specifically fought against such a notion because it makes them responsible for Israel's many crimes.



    um because you have repeatedly tried to conflate Israel with all of jewdom in the past.
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

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    Funny that, eh?

    There must be a hell of a lot of insane cops out there then since the foreign countries involved have sent police officers and detectives to Israel to investigate it.

    And pray tell, what anti-semitic statements have been said in this thread? What? Are we not allowed to criticise Israel? Since when?

    You wilfully criticise Arab countries and Muslims to the point where your fingers are probably little stubs from typing so hard. It is highly hypocritical of you to now demand that Israel not be scrutinised in a similar fashion. So suck it up princess.
     
  21. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    its the school yard bully mentality people tend to have when arguing. its all right when they dish it but its at them they can't take it.
     
  22. otheadp Banned Banned

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    Your arguments are falling apart and you are quite desperate at reasoning so name calling is the next natural progression. That made my day

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    I did state at least once that it was probably the Mossad. But you've been whining that any law student would get a conviction based on available evidence. FAIL! lol

    My answer to your question was absolutely correct.
    You now pose a different position, to which there's a different answer. I do like the "twit" part. Weak...

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    The lack of civil marriages in Israel is quite a different issue than what you're talking about. But if an Israeli marries a "palestinian" and then decides to move to Israel with his/her spouse then that is recognized, assuming that the "palestinian" in question has no ties to terrorism. There are plenty of such cases.

    You were talking about a different thing altogether. You got hysterical. Here's your quote:
    The government doesn't regulate "intermingling". You're really ... man how do I say this politely... stupid? How do you suppose this regulation of intermingling occurs? Like in Iran? A cop in Israel sees a Jewish man with an Arab woman holding hands and get the Arab woman arrested? Retardation much?

    I now noticed that you included the "in Israel" part. You either edited that in after my original response, or I haven't noticed it initially. But it doesn't matter, since this entire line of questioning by you stems from these hysterical assumptions such as "Israel regulates relationships".

    Israeli law is so liberal that when an Israeli Arab suicide bomber blew himself up, his Israeli Arab widow with her 5 or 7 kids (forgot the exact number) gets to collect welfare cheques from the state because her husband got killed and she became eligible for widow benefits, as she is entitled to under Israeli law, since she's Israeli... and there you go accusing Israel of Iran-like or Saudi-like policies. Get a hold of yourself Bells. We were having an intelligent discussion up to a few posts ago and now you've stepped into the twilight zone, and also started calling me names.

    Your insane assumptions about Israel did shine some light on who exactly I'm talking to... I'm starting to think you belong in the SAM/pjdude category of people. Please show your rational side and prove me wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  23. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    I wonder, how come you criticise only Israel?
     
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