Drugs, Addiction and Morality

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by ScaryMonster, Sep 27, 2009.

  1. NO1 I Am DARKNESS Registered Senior Member

    My philosophy is that every person has an inborn dignity and self pride. But pride is like a young sapling that must be trained, channeled and nurtured until it is able to become deeply rooted and stand alone, self-supported and unshakeable in the conviction that its firm foundation can withstand the test of any ill wind that may attempt to uproot it.

    An ill wind has stunted the growth of my pride but, with eachother, I will, I must dig my roots deeper, make my foundation stronger and learn to combat and defeat all obstacles that stand between myself and my goal of maturity, dignity and self-respect.

    My symbol, the Phoenix, derives from the Egyptian myth of the great bird which is said to have destroyed itself by fire and to have risen again form its own ashes.

    It is what I, who have destroyed my life by marijuana addiction, is striving to do: rise from the ashes of my defeat to take my rightful place in society. Society will accept me for once I have regained my dignity; I will be society.

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  3. Cifo Day destroys the night, Registered Senior Member

    I have several years of experience in the administration of chemical substance recovery programs and also in allied professions. I learned that people use drugs due to several factors: genetic, societal, familial, inability to cope, etc.

    All these factors can come into play; however, I see the most important (and controllable) factor being "coping skills". People turn to their substance of choice when they're happy, unhappy, angry, worried, etc because they lack the appropriate coping skills to handle success, disaster, etc.

    A lack of laws is lawlessness. Laws against alcohol or drug use are not an attempt to legislate morality. Instead, they are an attempt to preserve a specific kind of society so that all may enjoy the freedoms, benefits and protection that the society offers. In the extreme, how long would our society last if everyone (or a sizable part of our society) stumbled around drunk, high, wasted etc? To equate marijuana, synthetics etc to alcohol is a nonsequitor. Alcohol is a substance known, used and (to some degree) accepted by most cultures throughout history since time immemorial.

    National Prohibition (the 18th Amendment) was not some whim concocted by a bunch of teetotaling fuddy-duddies in Washington. When Congress voted to enact Prohibition, 30 states had already instituted their own prohibitions, which 55% of Americans lived under. For Prohibition to be enacted, each state had to ratify it, which they did, and then certified by the US Secretary of State.

    Even today, the production, distribution, sale, possession and use of alcoholic beverages is highly regulated. Wikipedia says that over 500 municipalities in the United States are dry and lists these communities by state (in two separate articles).
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  5. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Yes indeed.
    • Alcohol is more addictive.
    • The effects of its intoxication are more dangerous.
    • Long-term use is a greater health risk.
    • Both addiction and casual use cause more severe personal and societal problems, on the average, than marijuana.
    The laws should definitely be adjusted to discourage alcohol and be more tolerant of marijuana. And don't give me the bullshit about smoke; vaporizers have been available for years and would be much more widely used if they weren't categorized in many jurisdictions as "paraphernalia."

    The fact that you haven't even brought up these key issues, much less weighed them, casts serious doubt on your claim to credentials on the subject. You sound more like the cops who present the D.A.R.E. program's laughable lies to impressionable children: a shill for the shit-for-brains government.

    I suspect that I have more practical knowledge about recreational drugs, simply from having lived through the 1960s and 70s and by knowing people who cover the entire spectrum of drug use, for several decades. You only know the one-percenters who ended up in recovery because of atypical body chemistry, addictive personalities, dismal home life, or sheer bad luck. These people are hardly representative of the tens of millions of responsible, productive and otherwise law-abiding Americans who use recreational drugs with no more ill effects than they get from transfatty acids, air pollution, corporate greed, talk shows, and religion.

    This is like saying you're an expert on dogs because you spent ten years working in a shelter.
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  7. Gypsi Registered Senior Member

    You ought to be aware, then, that people who want/need drugs have no difficulty at all in obtaining drugs - legality is irrelevant, impotent. From which it follows that in actuality people have a choice. Thus non drug use is not a consequence of illegality - it is a consequence of choice, with many/most people choosing not to use drugs. So the notion that the streets would be awash - further to legalisation - with people who are "drunk, high, wasted etc" doesn't hold water.

    They were/are an attempt to gain and retain votes through an appearance of morality.

    ... since before people had cars, guns... and liquor stores.

    And it's achieving precisely what, beyond close control of tax revenues?
  8. Cifo Day destroys the night, Registered Senior Member

    I agree with you Fraggle Rocker that alcohol causes so much misery because it is legal, and most people simply don’t want to experiment by making more drugs legal. We already have alcohol, nicotine and caffeine. Someone else’s alcoholism ruined my life, and wrecked the lives of family members, friends and neighbors, and I worked those positions because I didn’t want it to happen to someone else.

    I never claimed to be an expert or to have credentials. I simply stated my experiences just as you and others have stated theirs. I have also studied alcohol and drugs formally as well as in real life, and while not under the influence. I have met people who use drugs, such as steroids and GHB, that most people don’t think of as substances of abuse. And the last thing I would ever be is a cop or any representative of the government.
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    My parents lived through Prohibition, when the entire country learned that alcohol causes even more misery when it's illegal. Moving a popular commodity onto the black market invariably causes a host of problems.
    • The price rises, because the risk of doing business increases and people expect to be rewarded for taking risks in business.
    • Commercial disputes cannot be taken to the legal system for resolution so producers, consumers and dealers end up shooting at each other and often hitting innocent bystanders.
    • Children are recruited into the business because they're less likely to be prosecuted.
    • Children are also exposed to the reality that gangsters are more prosperous than their hard-working fathers, and become competing role models.
    • Without regulation and under the pressure of the need for secrecy, production quality is lax, resulting in contamination and/or inconsistent concentration. Methanol was a common deadly pollutant in bootleg alcohol, and many heroin deaths are due to unintentional overdose.
    • Black marketers are not exactly concerned with the welfare of their customers. My grandfather sold heroin and cocaine in his pharmacy and he never let anyone overdo it.
    • In a country like America where authority is automatically distrusted and disrespected, illegality makes a product attractive. My mother said the worst thing about Prohibition was that when drinking became "naughty," respectable women began going to taverns.
    • The profits of a black market industry corrupt the legal and political system and stress the society. Chicago was a war zone when my parents lived there, just as Mexico is today. The profits from the illegal heroin trade provide perhaps a majority of the Taliban's funding; I'd rather see some American corporation have that money.
    You have my sympathy, but that doesn't give you the right to campaign to deny alcohol (or any other drug) to the millions of other people whose lives and families are not adversely affected. You've certainly met some one-percenters in your life, but the reason we call them that is that the vast majority of people aren't like that.

    There's arguably nothing in human history that has caused as much grief as religion. Do you want to make that illegal too?
  10. Cifo Day destroys the night, Registered Senior Member

    Huh? I wasn't the one campaigning (please note the expression of unquestionable desirability in the future tense used below) ...
    I was just saying that (please note the factual present tense used below) ...
    This is a mere statement of fact. It's a well-known fact that alcohol is thoroughly ingrained (no pun intended

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    ), and thus legal, in most cultures. This is like saying that airliner crashes are deadly disasters because they are metal tubes stuffed with people flying 600 mph. It's merely a statement of fact. This is what I say when people are shocked when an airliner goes splat. By saying this, I'm not campaigning to ban airliners — in fact, I'll soon be stuffed inside one of those 600-mph metal tubes. I'll be away for some time, and I wish everyone the best. Thank you.
  11. M00se1989 Banned Banned

    Im still opposed to "home" chemically altered drugs and pain killers because of their physical dependance. such as meth, oxycotin, roxys or blues, heroin both chasing the dragon and injection, but the actual cocaine leaves themselves don't seem harmful and are still in fact used in cocacola I believe (chemically extracted to not bear the drug of corse) processed in a north eastern state I believe... but :m: is a natural plant and probably less harmful than cigarets just because you actually cough if you do it right, or you can actually make it into tea (ground stems work best) which would contain no carcinogens. although some people can NOT function properly on this "SOMA" (to use the term of its roots) and need to either give it up or probably practice actually doing something instead of video games or internet porn.

    end quote " DRUGS ain' hard te get down on the skreet!" just learn the slang get you a gun and learn how to use it. the right way which is for protection only.
  12. Maika Registered Member

    i think people should be taken care of. if our society took care of us since babyhood there wouldn't be any traumas. we'd be whole. and noone would need to use drugs. our community is so disjointed. people are lonely. drugs take away that pain. they give a blanket of security. people who feel hurt in life need some way to feel ok, we shouldn't villainize them. nor should we mollycoddle anyone. we should offer love and compassion as a society and start building a utopia. it could be done if we all worked together.

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