I agree. But what havoc will it wreck upon the world before it finally succumbs? I don't think we should stand around and wait and watch while that happens, do you? Baron Max
We're not, and I hope the Euros (and Americans) get it together enough before it's too late, the conversion rate to Islam is quite low I think, most of the new ones are children of Muslims, or those forced to convert by the sword in Third World countries. I hope Christianity can hold up in South and Central America, 'cause they do love to hate America down there, so they could be ripe for the Islamic overtures. Islam in the U.S. is pretty much known for what it is, a religion of destruction and suppression.
I can only hope that if Islam leaves, Christianity will follows shortly. Islam will not leave in our lifetimes and neither will Christianity, expecting either is fruitless. Plus, what damage have Muslims in this country done (and I'm not talking about what Muslims have done to the country a la 9/11)? (Remember to cite sources!)
Divisiveness on a grand scale! You can also check the 'Net for the happenings in Detroit, MI where the greatest concentration of Muslims is in this great nation. You'll find many examples of "civil unrest" going on ....dividing the communities and keeping everyone tense and nervous and hateful. Baron Max
The young Muslims already are going wild in some places. Check some of the happenings in Detroit, Michigan, for example. Another one is Los Angeles. It's not so much the older Muslims immigrants, it's the younger ones who are beginning to turn violent in many areas of the country (and Europe, too, I think, right?). Baron Max
Have you ever personally experienced any backlash from Muslims? Many of the Muslims I know are moderates and have assimilated nicely into society. If you care to relate the two, I live in a small conservative town and they haven't done anything! Normally you'd think a minority would do something "divisive" if they lived in such conditions!
And many of them have not assimilated ....and that's the problem! A Muslim friend of mine says basically the same thing ...that unless Muslims, and indeed any other groups of immigrants, assimmilate quickly into the culture, there will be nothing but trouble and problems and conflicts. By the way, personal experiences have little or nothing to do with the overall discussion. Just because you have a couple of friends who are Muslim means nothing whatsoever to the overall concept of assimmilation or acceptance. Baron Max
Baron - It may be true, that many of them have not, but how do we know that for sure? Are there numbers for the number of culturally assimilated Muslims? Probably not. Could you please cite evidence for the happenings in Detroit and Los Angeles? Thanks in advance. Also, you are correct about the European instability. The one that comes to mind most clearly were the riots that took place in France two years ago (?). Of course, the French couldn't handle a couple Muslims with stones so America sent in the big guns (otherwise known as two marines) to stop the violence. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Out of curiosity, and for future reference. What would you consider as assimilated into American culture? Does it mean completely stripping yourself of your ethnic culture? Can I still participate in Indian cultural events and be "assimilated" into American culture?
Drive around Detroit and count the number of people who are wearing bedsheets for clothing ...it shouldn't be too hard to do. Those are some of the ones who have not assimmilated into our culture. Sorry, I'm not so astute with computer searches as most people here are. My guess is you can find many, many examples if you just try. Sorry, I'm too old to learn that new-fangle Internet thingie. All I ever get is porno sites! I can only say that people who aren't assimmilated into a culture are the ones who stand out strongly against the basic background of the people with whom they're trying to assimmilate. And I think wearing a bedsheet is probably what most would take as "standing out". Sure one can participate in cultural and religious events ...people do it all the time in the US - even here in Texas, we permit such activities. But when the event is over, they should take off their bedsheets and try to wear clothing and appear to be like those around them inasmuch as possible. When in Rome,..... Baron Max
A minor gift for Hype, regarding religious tolerance for minority religions in that vastly improving nation - Iran. Frankly, the old shahada thing is what I suspect: "you shall not put partners with God" etc etc.
"A minor gift for Hype" Thanks, Geoff. More evidence you have yet to understand me. You made sweeping and uninformed statements about religious intolerance in Saudi Arabia and I corrected you. Ever since, you have been casting our discussion as some sort of a contest between two alternate realities: Muslim societies are intrinsically intolerant (your opinion), and Muslim societies always deserve the benefit of the doubt (your projection of my opinion). You are of course entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to misrepresenting mine. It seems to me that the political angle of the AKI story you linked equally supports my position- that at the very source of the conflicts and abuses you confuse as having genesis in Islam, there instead lies Realpolitik. Please note that I have been repeatedly trying to introduce you to the notion that repressive regimes require foreign threats for their survival. Thanks again.
Baron Bedsheets? What do you mean? Like poor people? Or are you talking about turbans? If you are - give me a break. People wear different styles of clothing - so why is a turban any different? Your opinion obviously doesn't stem from a question of assimilation, but your innate dislike for Middle Easterners in general. Muslims aren't the only ones who wear turbans. Sikhs wear them too, and they belong to a different religion entirely and are Indian, not from the Middle East. And you permit such activities? - who died and made you king of the Nile? I have to say I have been confused by your racism (and mostly attributed it to your age) for some time now, but it's all clear now. You're from Texas.
Those who wish to assimmilate, don't wear clothing that makes them stand out as "different" from the local population. When in Rome, .....? Gang members also wear clothing which makes them stand out from the norm, thus promoting their ideals of hatred and disregard of the local population and society. Is that what the immigrants are wanting to portray?? One can say or write books about world issues without adhering to any one of the ideals or beliefs. One can talk about issues of racism and immigrant assimmilation without being one themselves. Yes, you should be confused by my posts ...but don't confuse the words that you read with philosophy or personal character of the person who wrote them. Baron Max
with regard to posts 159 & 157 and that of BM it is replying to on style of dress, see last paragraph and footnote of : http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1255750&postcount=28
