Dr Watson's views on race seem very sensible.

Baron:

And he is in the habit of this:

Apparently no one told him about the French.

 

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But it is scientific, Sam! How do those various traits of "races" continue to get passed from generation to generation if it's not part of the genetic make-up of the parents' egg and sperm? You and the others seem to completely ignore all of those traits while arguing in a round-about bullshit way without saying much of anything.

How do various traits of races get passed from generation to generation?

It's a sure bet that if the parents are both black, then the kids will be black. And that's not just with black skin, it's also with broad, flat nostrils; kinky black hair; fat, flabby lips, among other features that are distinctly black! And yet you and the others continue to ignore that. Why?

Baron Max

 

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Read the last two pages Baron, I've already explained it and given references.

If you still don't understand, I suggest you audit a few courses

 

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Of course, Sam, read the damned passage! Watson is right, Africa, as a continent, has many races on it now, not just blacks. So of course he wasn't talking about Africa!!! ...LOL!

But you'll notice that that passage above has nothing to do with his belief that blacks are inferior to whites. And if you doubt it, read it again more carefully.

Baron Max

 

And if those racial traits are passed from generation to generation, then why can't the intelligence be passed along in like manner?

Baron Max

 

it can.

But you have to keep a few things in mind:

1. environment determines more, or at least to a very large degree, the intelligence variation between members of the population compared to the genetic component. Identical/non-identical twin studies have shown this.

2. the environment influences on different levels.

3. intelligence genes are no glued to 'race' genes. No gene is glued to another.

4. genes are identical between all humans. They have different alleles for each gene. An allele is a variation of a gene.

5. alleles of genes spread freely. They know no boundaries. Not even ones set in the minds of texans.

6. we do not know the genetic mechanisms that determine intelligence. Anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. We know some genes that might determin some aspects of intelligence, or at least brain development. We do not know how the different alleles come into play here, mostly.

7. Nothing is known about the distribution of the alleles, which we do not know the identity off, in the population.

8. We do know that educational and social environment has a huge influence on tests such as the IQ test. Note that the IQ test is not an intelligence test. It's an indicator of educational potency.

And there are lots more of these crucial point.

And I hope that you realize, dear Baron, that anyone who states that some race is more intelligent than others, is plainly talking from his ass, and not conveying a scientific opinion.

We all know that talking from your ass is common in our society. Politicians do it all the time for instance. teachers also love it. Foxnews is build upon it.

Hence Dr Watson's views seem very sensible to people who accept talking out of your ass as a valid mechanism to analyse the world.

It is not a reflection of reality.

 

{quote=baron] Of course, Sam, read the damned passage! Watson is right, Africa, as a continent, has many races on it now, not just blacks. [/quote] There are many races of blacks in Africa. Always have been. That is, if there are any races at all.

If you are talking about genetics, anyway. Is that what you are talking about?

Sure. It's just that those populations do not correspond with the sociological "races". The sociological "races" do not form genetically distinct populations. Essentially every allele found in any population of "whites", for example, is also found in corresponding frequency in some population of "blacks", as far as anyone has been able to discover. And they've looked - the project of defending the status quo social order through scientific buttressing is a well-funded and diligently pursued one.

"Blacks" are not a genetic race.

 

Nobody's ignoring it.
However, you've ignored newer, more sound interpretations of these observations.

What is "black" or African descent actually comprises the most diverse population subset of human genes on the planet. You cannot generalize "blacks" to have kinky hair, fat lips, flabby lips, broad nostrils, etc. because that is a very specific sample from the African people.

 

I just can't understand why - if it's not such a big issue - posters like S.A.M. and spurious are unable to tell us their race?

S.A.M is avoiding this like the plague and I can only reason she feels ashamed.

 

spurious:

What about linkage disequilibrium? Hell, sometimes a similar order of genes is preserved across species, in regions of synteny.

Also, from memory, Dawkin's stated in 'The Selfish Gene' that certain genes do remain together. For example, genes for sharp teeth will often be found with genes for a short intestine.

I'm sure that alleles can spread between races. But this doesn't change the fact that the frequency of alleles varies between particular populations (ie. races).

 

iceaura:

Sure. Blacks can probably be subdivided further into subpopulations with genetic homogeneity.

Perhaps 'biogeographical origin' would be a better term than race. But 'race' is often an indirect measure of 'biogeographical origin'.

 

Odd that you say the above with such "scientific" conviction, yet you go right on to say:

Quit contradictory, wouldn't you say? I mean, for a "scientist"? Now if I'd said something like those two statements, I could understand it. But from a "scientist"? Hmm, makes me wonder.

And yet you and others continually state, categorically and with conviction, that there's no difference between the intelligence of one "race" and that of another "race"? How can you be so contradictory in your statements and still call yourself a "scientist"?

You say here that we don't know, yet you also say that there's no difference between the various "races". How can you say that, and on what do you base your so-convincing statements?

But, Spurious, by the same token, you and the others should also be aware that to state categorically that all the "races" are equally intelligent is ALSO making an ass out of yourselves. Because you've just now convinced me that no one knows about how the genes affect intelligence. See? Is this just more liberal "scientific" bullshit?

And there might well be a combination that occurs in the black "race" which makes the blacks less intelligent than the whites! You've admitted yourself that no one knows.

And in every test, for decades, in all kinds of different situations and environments, blacks have tested less intelligent than whites. Test after test after test ...different tests, different educators, different scientists, different everything. Blacks have consistently tested as less intelligent.

Out of all the tests ever done, you'd think that blacks would score higher in one test .....if nothing more than the odds! But they haven't ...ever.

Baron Max

 

Precisely my point, Baron. People claim that 'Intelligence is hard to quantify' and 'Race isn't as transparent as we first thought', and then turn around and claim with certainty that intelligence is equal between all races. Huh?

 

Or frightened... if she looks like an Arab.

This would explain why she's so anti-American.

 

Nigerian Writer: I Agree With Dr Watson

http://allafrica.com/stories/200710250639.html

Daily Trust (Abuja)

OPINION
25 October 2007
Posted to the web 25 October 2007

Idang Alibi

A few days ago, the Nobel Laureate, Dr James Watson, made a remark that is now generating worldwide uproar, especially among the blacks.

He said what to me looks like a self-evident truth. He told The Sunday Times of London in an interview that in his humble opinion, black people are less intelligent than the White people.

Since then, some of us cannot hear anything else but the outrage of black people who feel demeaned by what Watson has said. So many people have called the man names. To be expected, some have said he is a racist. Some even wonder how a "foolish" man like Watson could have won the Nobel Prize. Even white people who, deep in their heart, agree with Watson want to be politically, correct so they condemn the man.

Why are we blacks becoming so reactive, so sensitive to any remarks, no matter how well-meaning, about our failure as a race? Why are we becoming like the Jews who see every accusation as a manifestation of anti-Semitism? I do not know what constitutes intelligence. I leave that to our so-called scholars. But I do know that in terms of organising society for the benefit of the people living in it, we blacks have not shown any intelligence in that direction at all. I am so ashamed of this and sometimes feel that I ought to have belonged to another race.

Nigeria my dear country is a prime example of the inferiority of the black race when compared to other races. Let somebody please tell me whether it is a manifestation of intelligence if a people cannot organise a free, fair and credible election to choose who will lead them. Is it intelligence that we cannot provide simple pipe-borne water for the people? Our public school system has virtually collapsed. Is that a sign of intelligence? Our roads are impassable. In spite of the numerous sources that nature has made available to us to tap for energy to run our industries and homes, we have no steady supply of electricity. Yet electricity is the bedrock of industrialisation. When you agree with the school of Watson, some say you are incorrect because all these failures are a result of poor leadership. Why must it be us blacks who must always suffer poor leadership? Is that not a manifestation of unintelligence?

- snip -

 

Thank you for not pasting the whole letter.

 

I gotta tell you this is a pointless thread in my opinion. Even if the premise were true, you are talking averages...what does that prove. Some black folks are smarter that some whites. What can you do with it...nothing. There are certianly very smart black people. That cannot be denied. I have never met a race, only men and women and children. Some are smart and some are less smart...regarless of skin color.

 

What is wrong with pasting whole articles? This is the only forum I am aware of that has this hang up.

 

She's a childish control freak.

 

Because we aren't talking about individuals. We are talking about large groups.