Dr Watson's views on race seem very sensible.

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Lord Hillyer, Oct 21, 2007.

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  1. mountainhare Banned Banned

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    S.A.M:

    So let me get this straight.

    When I learn about those of African ancestry being at greater risk of sickle cell anaemia, or those of Caucasoid ancestry being at a greater risk of Cystic Fibrosis, it's all bullshit?
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    No thats dominant recessive distribution based on selection pressure. If there are white people who get sickle cell anemia, does this mean that genetically, they are black?
     
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  5. mountainhare Banned Banned

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    If a man gets breast cancer, does that mean that they are a woman?

    All I'm arguing is that particular alleles, and combinations of alleles, are more frequent in people who descended from particular populations.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Are they stuck to all other alleles? Is it scientifically valid to relate two different concepts when there is no evidence of what genetic contribution implies? Is there one allele for intelligence 200? 2000? Do they all travel together ? Does it matter what other alleles are present for skin, hair, lips, nose, in determining which hitherto unknown alleles of "intelligence" travel together? Is there ANY role of external environmental pressures in modifying any of these?

    Where is the science?
     
  8. mountainhare Banned Banned

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    S.A.M:
    I don't know. And neither does the scientific community. And that's the point!!!

    There's HEAPS of science involved in answering these complex questions. However, to merely assume that 'everyone is equal', and then frown upon any research into 'taboo' areas, is highly unscientific.
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So like people ticking off the race box based on phenotype, shall we merely use our impressions of what MUST be to arrive at conclusions and then look for the data to prove it?

    There are no taboo areas in science research, only idoits who misrepresent science to validate their own bigotry. I may as well say that people with large feet are better at spelling
     
  10. mountainhare Banned Banned

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    S.A.M:
    No. People tick off the race box based on ancestry. But even if they were to tick it regarding phenotype, phenotype is a good indicator of ancestry. For instance, most people can guess my Slavic ancestry on a first glance.

    No? You're erecting strawman, again. I fail to see anything unscientific about comparing the intelligence of humans with African ancestry to those of Caucasian or Asian ancestry.

    Yes there are. Research into variation in intelligence between races is one of those areas.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Whats my ancestry? I have a mixture of Afghan and West Coast India genes. That may be anything from Mongolian to Caucasian to Middle Eastern to Indian. Is it the same as a Sri Lankan? A Pakistani? A Chinese? An Arab?

    And your "Slavic" ancestry only presumes that your population is more endogamous and hence probably low in genetic variation; but are you certain of that? You have no admixture of genes from other races? Whatever happened to YOUR African ancestry? Which of those alleles are still the same?

    All the rest is mere unscientific trolling; I work in the field, I have first hand knowledge of what is or is not taboo. Social misappropriation of faux scientific concepts is taboo.
     
  12. mountainhare Banned Banned

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    S.A.M:
    Most likely not. But then, you still are struggling to grasp the very simple concept that the frequency of alleles varies between different populations of homo sapiens. Or perhaps you have grasped this concept, but won't follow it through to the logical conclusion.

    Who knows, given that research into such fields is taboo (and pointless, according to you). But apparently some of my alleles are no longer the same as Africans, given that there is a noticable difference between the Slavic population from which I most recently descended from, and the African population which diverged from some of my distant common ancestors a long time ago.

    Whether such variations between populations affect intelligence is debatable. As things stand, the jury is still out. But to prohibit research into such areas, while claiming that 'everyone is equal' without any supporting evidence, is unscientific.


    I agree. You are trolling. It's a pity that we don't have a responsible moderator in this forum to prune your inanity.

    Really? Research assistant? Postgrad? Doctor? Professor? Senior lecturer?

    It's also interesting to note that Dr. Watson 'works in the field'. Funny how you don't seem to appeal to his authority. Oh wait. Authority and credentials are only relevant when that the person with them agrees with you.

    Ergo: Anything which is politically incorrect at the time = taboo.
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I suggest you actually run through the available literature in the field first

    http://www.genome.gov/Pages/News/Documents/RaceEthnicityandGenetics.pdf

    I've explained the basics, the references are all here. However, your "objectivity" is clouding your reasoning

    As for Dr Watson, I recall his statement that there was no scientific basis for his opinion. There is no reason that a scientist cannot also be a racist.
     
  14. DeepThought Banned Banned

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    So it's insecurities about your own race which are driving your arguments?

    Why not just show us a picture and we'll decide quite quickly without any need for microscopes or laboratories...LOL.

    Well?
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not surprised you fail to miss the question.

    Question for you:

    If you profile the blacks in the US, UK, Kenya, Sudan and West Indies, will they all have the same genetic profile?
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Mountainhare:

    a scientific study for you
    http://www.newsreel.org/guides/race/whatdiff.htm

    :roflmao:
     
  17. mountainhare Banned Banned

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    Trolling again, S.A.M?
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I thought it was an excellent example of within population variance.

    From the same article:

    Of course, feel free to disregard the science in favor of personal interpretation of data

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. DeepThought Banned Banned

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    Of course they won't have the same genetic profiles.

    Blacks from east Africa tend to look very different from west Africans.

    East Africans tend to be smaller boned, thinner with larger heads, taller, straight noses, etc....there's plenty of Somalis living in my area.

    Since West Indians, US blacks and UK blacks are descendants of west Africans they will share many of their traits which they do...

    But you can't hide behind genetics S.A.M. It's intellectually dishonest.

    All your doing is looking at humanity through a microscope to avoid confronting what are extremely uncomfortable social issues for you.

    Because of troubled American history you choose to bury your head in the sand and as a result make race into a huge deal when most humans simply accept it as a natural consequence of nature.

    I am white (English/Irish) and there's no way I could pass for an African or an Oriental without disguising my physical appearance. If I went to a crowded market in Khartoum nobody is going to think I'm Sudanese or African for that matter. They won't need to look at my 'gene strand' to figure it out either.

    Whether you feel you belong to a race now or not your children or their children will eventually be swallowed up by one of the big races white, black or Asian.

    So what's the big deal? Is your nose straight or flat? I'm betting it's straight because you mentioned Turkish/Arab ancestry.
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Nonscientific rebuttal
     
  21. DeepThought Banned Banned

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    I've never met someone so ashamed of their ancestry.
     
  22. DeepThought Banned Banned

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    According to S.A.M. black people don't exist.

    I can't believe they let racists like this act as moderators?
     
  23. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Ya' mean sorta' like the scientifici POV of Dr. Watson? Which I'm sure that you consider highly scientific and completely void of any bias, right?

    Baron Max
     
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