Dr Watson's views on race seem very sensible.

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Lord Hillyer, Oct 21, 2007.

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  1. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps that should teach you something. Economic success is not an indicator of genetic superiority.
     
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  3. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

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    Africans have the highest educational attainment rates of any immigrant group in the United States with higher levels of completion than the stereotyped Asian American model minority.[2] It is not only the first generation that does well, as estimates indicate that a highly disproportionate percentage of black students at elite universities are African or the children of African immigrants. Harvard University, for example, has estimated that two-thirds of their black population is not comprised of traditional black Americans.[3] This is true for other universities such as Yale, Princeton, Penn, Columbia, Duke and Berkeley.[4] As a result, the benefits of affirmative action are not efficiently serving traditional multi-generational black Americans who are descendants of American slaves.[5] This also includes recent black immigrants from other areas of the African diaspora, like Afro-Caribbean people.

    In an analysis of Census Bureau data by the Journal of Blacks in higher education, African immigrants to the United States were found more likely to be college educated than any other immigrant group. African immigrants to the U.S. are also more highly educated than any other native-born ethnic group including white Americans. Some 48.9 percent of all African immigrants hold a college diploma. This is slightly more than the percentage of Asian immigrants to the U.S., nearly double the rate of native-born white Americans, and nearly four times the rate of native-born African Americans[6].

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africans_in_the_United_States

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  5. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    If that's so, then why are the blacks complaining so much?

    Baron Max
     
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  7. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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  8. abu_afak Banned Banned

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:IQ-4races-rotate-highres.png
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2007
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    They did not and do not get their guns from the Yanks. They did and do get them from the Russians and Chinese.
     
  10. Vindicator The Advocate Registered Senior Member

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    The problem with this research is that the "Culture" factor is very hard to isolate from the race factor. This takes it right back to the "nature or nurture" question which is an area of active debate. If no conclusions can be drawn regarding the latter, it follows for the former.

    If there were many aspects of shared culture then the inference would be a bit more reasonable to accept. The fact is that the world is just now becoming globalised, where one can begin to say there is an emerging shared culture. I mean what test do you use to evaluate the IQ of a Sub-Saharan African? There are just too many barriers. The background of those creating the test will immediately introduce a bias prior to any results.

    These studies are way before their time (if there can ever be such a time). There are too many social factors at play to allow for a clear indication that skin colour determines intelligence.

    While I have no issues accepting the results of the IQ test(s), the inferences drawn lack a credible basis - i.e. genetic evidence. Genetic evidence is what would vindicate Watson's views as being of substance. There is zero genetic evidence supporting the theory purporting genes that separate us into different races as linked to those which determine our intelligence.
     
  11. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    So, ...we should stop searching?

    There are genetics that cause the skin color differences as well as facial feature differences, why is it so difficult for you to grasp that there could also be genetics which cause one group to be less intelligent than another?

    Baron Max
     
  12. Vindicator The Advocate Registered Senior Member

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    You assume too much. I am a scientist. I have no problems with the concept - just claims of evidence supporting it when there is none.

    Nothing to be ashamed of if there is some reality supporting it, however the scale tips - something to motivate, and be proud of when one achieves (leaving others in the dust).

    Of course statistics can be a dangerous tool, when it leads to stereotyping - one dum idiot of one race "riding statistics" thinking he's more "intelligent" than the genius of the other race (think Sciforums).

    I find this whole episode more funny than anything - here one can only speak from experience.

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    - An aside -

    How would you test the IQ of some ancient African tribe who have not been exposed to modern civilisation? You first define everyday itmes in their environment and use that in your test, no? You wouldn't be asking some member of an ancient tribe what is the square root of four? You might ask him if he sees 4 monkeys in some particular configuration, which he'll attack first for highest success of getting a day's meal. You might test his knowledge of the night sky. Wouldn't that be an intersting "standard" to use? All humanity is aware of the night sky.

    The best you can do is abandon the concept of "intelligence" and just say "they think differently."
     
  13. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    Like I said, more than 60% of intelligence is enviromental. If you look at those studnets at Harvard you'd find out that most are from relatively better socio-economic class. AT least better than the peson that has to work 3 jobs and never paid attention in high school because he's parents were never around and he never had anything of a mentor. And of cause, all conditions even.
     
  14. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Well, the blacks have had several gazillion years for their "race" to amount to something, but they still live in mud huts with dirt floors. Surely that gives you some "supporting evidence" of the lack of intelligence, don't it? The white "race" had half-a-gazillion years and look what they've accomplished, that should make you wonder a little bit, shouldn't it?

    Apparently, any "advancements" that the African blacks have made is due to the influence of the whites ...even if it was colonialism. At least they learned a tiny, little bit ...some African blacks actually live in real houses!

    Me, too. I keep laughing my ass off at the poor, silly attempts of people who try to justify why the blacks of the world have remained so backward and destitute and poor and hungry and uneducated.

    Yeah, sure ...that's one way to justify why the blacks of the world have remained so backward. Got any other excuses for them? I'm sure they could use all the excuses you could give them.

    Baron Max
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Baron Max:

    Are you applying for Count Sudoku's position as the resident racist?

    No. Try reading Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel. Come back when you're educated.
     
  16. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    I've read it ....and it's just more fuckin' excuses for the blacks of the world, that's all. And that's what it's all about these days ...makin' excuses for the backwardness of blacks and the high crime rates in black communities, etc. Oh, it's never the blacks' fault ...nothing is the fault of the blacks, it's always the fault of the whites!

    Don't y'all get sick n' tired of makin' excuses for blacks?

    Baron Max
     
  17. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    Well, whether whites are smarter than blacks or blacks are smarter than monkeys, the fact remains that intelligence is and has always been enviromental. Thats just my point, and I will die with that point.

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    In nature, there is no real difference in intelligence between animals of the same species except if they are of different species or same species of very different habitat. The gray wolf is just as intelligent as the timbewolf, and the polar bear is as intelligent as the brown bear. The only intra specie intelligence disparity known is, at least as far as Dr Watson is concerned, in Human beings. But keep in mind that human beings are also the one species that practise free and fair subjective discrimination, it doesn't also help that we are 6 billion in numbers.
    Why are some individual blacks smarter than some Asians or whites? This throws the discussion towards the influence of enviroment. Even the few intelligence known by most black people is through interaction with whites, again the influence of enviroment. You see, human beings are not as naturaly smart or advanced as they think they are; the same way a few of them hold them together as in politicians, a few of them move the entire race forward as in thinkers and innovators. Black people have their few genuises too, just like any other race, but the onset problem with black people is that civilization eludes them, which itself is a function of enviroment. White people are smarter than black people, we have to give them their dues, its not even a competition, in fact looking at some of the feats white people have achieved leaves one in awe.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Sure.

    That would be an intelligence grouping based on genetics, of course, not a skin color grouping based on sociological "race". If it is like every other genetic grouping so far established, it will overlap all the races - each genetic intelligence group, like each genetic blood factor grouping, will include members of all known sociological "races".
     
  19. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

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    Funny, when I read the newspapers I am always reading about excuses for white people's behavior. One major difference is that when white people make excuses - or their lawyers do - it tends to work. For all your sense of black people being excused all the time, who would you rather be a black man facing criminal charges or a white man, Barron?

    And yes, we all know about OJ. And yes, if I could either be an average white guy or an enormously rich black guy going to trial, OK, I take the latter. But if the incomes are even, the answer is obvious.
     
  20. greenberg until the end of the world Registered Senior Member

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    And people living in those mud huts with dirt floors do next to no damage to the environment.
    As far as they are concerned, they're making sure that their children will have a good place to live. Now that is intelligent.

    Whites, on the other hand, have managed to pollute the world. They keep talking about the importance of "caring for future generations", but polluting the world is a truly perverse understanding of care. Talk about intelligence.
     
  21. mountainhare Banned Banned

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    Baron:
    Thanks Baron. Although it's a sad day when you're the one who is helping me retain my sanity on sciforums.
     
  22. sniffy Banned Banned

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    Funny, reading your posts here I thought you'd already lost it....
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Clearly, you didn't understand it.
     
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