Don't follow the crowd...

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Seattle, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    5,378
    I was looking at a video that reminded me of the thread title. Too many people worry about just following the crowd.

    Take getting married. Many people do it at a young age and they are told that there must be a diamond ring involved that should cost at least 2 months salary (if you love her).

    A wedding doesn't have to be expensive but it usually is (again, you love her don't you?).

    Next people complain that they can't afford a house. You could generally put a down payment on a house for the cost of a wedding and a diamond ring.

    When I got married we just bought relatively inexpensive "wedding rings" and didn't purchase a diamond "engagement" ring. We got married at the local magistrates office.

    We didn't buy a house at that point but we did start long term saving from the very beginning. As they say we paid ourselves first.

    What have you done that could be considered not following the crowd that ended up being beneficial for you?
     
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  3. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    Gossiping at work. I've never ''followed the crowd,'' gossiping with the majority so I ''fit in.'' It is beneficial because the people who gossip usually are found out, and not trusted by anyone for obvious reasons.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    That's a good policy although Southerners are polite and we all know it's rude to say certain things directly to a person and therefore behind the back gossip might be the better choice as far as etiquette is concerned.

    I'd have to check with Emily Post to get the latest on office gossip etiquette.
     
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  7. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    Dear Seattle...

    Has a nice ring to it

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  8. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Dear Seattle,

    While behind the back gossip is probably not the best choice, if to do so from the front would be offensive this might be a viable option.

    Just make sure that the gossip is at least truthful and have a Merry Christmas.
    Emily
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    13,679
    Nobody follows the crowd for the sake of following the crowd.

    'Following the crowd' is an interpretation of the observation of a bunch of individuals making individual choices that happen to be compelling choices - for whatever reason.

    Telling people to not follow the crowd will result in just as submissive behavior as following the crowd. Counter-culture is just as faddish as culture.

    Instead, tell people to act in their own interests - independent of whether no one - or everyone - also do the same thing.
     
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  10. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I think, in many cases, people do follow the crowd for the sake of following the crowd. People want to be liked and therefore some people do what everyone else is doing in order to be liked. Or to paraphrase James, to increase their standing in the group. How many times have you heard, "What will the neighbors think"?

    Also, to me, telling someone to not follow the crowd is the same as telling them to follow their own instincts. Not following the crowd doesn't necessarily mean to follow the counter-culture.
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    36,106
    There was, in the 1990s, an advert campaign for Levi Strauss that told people to be an individual by all wearing the same brand of jeans.

    And I always thought it was funny how a particular period of anti-smoking spots tried to depict the coolness of being smart as being some manner of asshole. It was as if the viewer was supposed to resent the anti-smoking spot.
     
  12. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    5,378
    Commercial advertisements are probably not the best examples of not following the crowd.

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  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    29,748
    https://www.womenshealthmag.com/relationships/a19567270/average-age-of-marriage/
    That means the best age for first pregnancy, medically , for both the mother and the child, is now some years before the average age of first marriage. https://motherhow.com/best-age-to-get-pregnant/
    That is largely due to economics - but it is the crowd, if following a crowd when marrying is actually a common motive.

    Meanwhile: People who do get married young nowdays seldom pay for an expensive wedding - the parents do that, if it's done.

    The parents are also the common source of down payments and other aid in purchasing the first house - either by inheritance or gift. Most couples cannot save that much money, especially as they normally want to live as a couple - without roommates and subletters in their household - and they often carry large debt (the college educated marry).

    The crowd, in other words, is often just a lot of people in a common situation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    13,679
    ^^
    What I was trying to say.
     
  15. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Hippie style...
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    A meme started by De Beers in the 1940's to sell diamonds. They had a problem - they had effectively industrialized diamond mining, and there wasn't really a market for all the diamonds they were producing. There were only so many Hollywood divas who needed diamond tiaras. They were at risk of being victims of their own success; as they flooded the market with diamonds, the price would drop and industrial diamond mining would not be profitable. And at this point almost no one gave their fiancees diamond rings; it just wasn't a thing.

    So they hired the ad company NW Ayer to convince men they needed to buy expensive diamonds for their fiancees. It was a well funded ad campaign to oversee the "creation of the idea that diamonds are rare and valuable, and are essential signs of esteem." They sent free diamond rings to celebrities and the wives of political figures, and started radio (and later TV) ad campaigns. They coined the phrase "a diamond is forever." They even sent lecturers to high schools across the country to give talks to women there. Ostensibly about planning for life after high school, they also slipped in lots of references to being married, and how you could tell how serious a suitor was by the size of the ring he bought his fiance.

    And today we all obey that meme.
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Excellent. This will tend to delay the average age of first childbearing. This in turn will have three effects:

    1) Average family size will go down, since even people who want a very large family will not be able to have 12 kids. This will reduce our problems with overpopulation, problems that include climate change, pollution, scarcity of fresh water, habitat loss, traffic and border conflicts.

    2) People will evolve to live longer. Evolution will select for women who remain healthy into their 30's and 40's - healthy enough to have children, at least.

    3) People will tend to have more financial resources when they have their first children, again on average. That means that there will be fewer broken homes (since financial stress is one of the primary reasons listed for divorces) and that children will have more educational opportunities (better able to afford college and even graduate school.) They will tend to graduate with less debt.
     
  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    4,729
    like expensive hand bags
    wearing a suit to work
    wearing a suit to get married in
    getting married
    wearing heels
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  19. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    6,059
    I liken “follow the crowd” with “herd mentality.” There actually is a”crowd,” even on here, but it’s nice to see less echo chambering these days.
     
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    5,378
    I tend to distinguish between following the crowd and tradition. Some people are more traditional than others. I'm not particularly traditional but for those that are I don't necessarily consider that they are "following the crowd".

    Sure, you could define it that way but I would distinguish between tradition (marriage, wearing a suit on certain occasions) and doing what other's are doing just to try to fit in when you know you might not be doing what you should be doing.

    If you have a drink at a party and decide that you don't want any more that's fine. If peer pressure causes you to drink more to fit in, that's following the crowd IMO.

    Tradition, that's something that you can take or leave as you see fit. Following the crowd has negative connotations for me.
     
  21. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    4,729
    humans naturally herd
    think of post WW2
    lack of male role models
    the need to obey and all do the same thing to survive

    then add on top the space age... computers
    the striving for new technology

    individuality as a concept of core self actualization is very new to this era

    on one hand is the baby boomers who have a very conflicted set of moral compliaince
    from socialism to not being reliant on the community at all, being the single power & authority model
    contrast that with pregnant women
    how does that work ?

    how can you be very pregnant and completely independent and have no reliance on community ?
    (equally with small children)

    sometimes the question we ask are not the question we have in our minds
    so the answer we get is of not only no use, but distracts you from the real question.
     
  22. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Whether its doin what the crowd does or not… i only do what benifits me… which has led to zero mommy-daddy issues… father in law or mother in law issues… or arguments wit my siblings.!!!

    Brother in law offered a intrest free loan for me to buy a house… i didnt take it… cause payin the bank interst was less expensive than the strings that woud have been attached to his “free” loan

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    The thang ive enjoyed most about goin my own way… even more than bein retired... is choosin not to have kids.!!!
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    13,679
    As the saying goes: "correlation is not causation".

    Just because many people think the same way doesn't mean there's a crowd mentality going on.

    For example: many people think that they should try not the inhale while swimming underwater. That is a very popular opinion.
    Is it a "fad"? An indication of "herd mentality"? Or is it many people independently arriving at the same conclusion?

    Many people here on SciFo feel that the Earth is, in fact, round. Herd mentality? Or many people converging on a common concept?
     

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