Does time exist?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by Shadow1, Mar 31, 2010.

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Does time exist?

This poll will close on Sep 13, 2037 at 2:04 PM.
  1. Yes

    55.6%
  2. No

    44.4%
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  1. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    just wondering, does time even exist, i mean, things, juts happen, and happen, and what happened is don, we cant go back to it, it means, happened, and finished, and byebye, so, time and clocks were invented by many civilsiation (chinese, egyptian, greek, arab, indian i guess, etc...) humans in general, invented time just to orgenise their lifes, and their buisness, since humans have a memory, then he would say, what he remember of what happened in a certen day, and i think, in the real life, there's no future, and no past, there's only now, but in history you can effcorse say past, and mayeb in teh predeiction like economical predictions, or like, i will fo that something, etc... future, but, time don't actually exists, i know, earth turns around the sun, and the moon, and the day and the night, and the full round around the sun, etc... as for the day and night thing, it happen, and over, etc... but we cant turn teh clock back in the actual life, and go back to 1900 or something, or go to the future, but for some of you, who think that traviling to teh future is real, i think not, but, you live longer, when you be in a ship with at least the speed light, or mayeb more, and stay in it, for a year, in that year, while on earth it's two, you want feel it that it's two, cause even clocks are affected by gravity, and turnign speed etc... and when we use a clock on earth, it doesnt mean that it's right when you are on the moon, also, the time and the speed of time, is not the same when you are in a planet with less gravity than earth, but with teh same size, mass, cycling around the sun distance, how far from it's sun it is, etc... like teh same as eearth, but lesser gravity, the time of teh clock, will be lesser, and not because time exists so the claock act like that, but because the clock is affected by the gavity, and etc...

    so, what do you think?
     
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Clocks may have been invented: time wasn't. Clocks measure time - it happens anyway.

    So you won't grow older?

    All of which indicate that time does exist.

    We're all travelling into the future, the only way to not do so is to die now.

    What makes you think that? (See below).

    It takes a large difference in gravity to have a really noticeable (per our daily lives) affect on time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
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  5. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    growing older, is not time, it's like, a rutine of nature, everything dies, my body get older by time, and collapse when i get at an age, etc... no one is immortale, and no, i didnt said i don't want to grow older,
    also, things, happens, what proves that time exists? i mean, you can call it time, cause, it's a time line, that keep running, but it cant stop, or go back, also, what happen, happened, finished.

    p.s: i don't know how to make you see like i see it, so,i don't know how to convince you, but, maybe others can understand what i'm thinking of, i mean, to understand what i meant
     
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  7. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Growing older occurs because of time. If there were no time we would stay the same age.

    Movement.

    There are several threads in Pseudscience about the existence (or not) of time. Try reading those.
     
  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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  9. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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  10. chuk15 Registered Senior Member

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    Time is a measure of change. It is a human made concept, and is used to predict the behavior of objects in our known universe. For example, distance= rate x time. Time doesn't exist in the instantaneous moment that creates the present because time requires two points (time is used to measure differences between two states). If time didn't exist then calculus, and the majority of physics equations wouldn't work.

    Simply put: yes time exists.
     
  11. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    3,576
    I think this question is more complex than it appears...

    Let me offer this analogy.

    Unlike the flowing time like a river Analogy...
    You have a cup of coffee.
    You pour in powdered creamer.

    So what you have is coffee with particulates floating on top. These particulates represent "Time."
    The coffee surface represents "Space."
    You take your coffee stirrer and stick it in the cup of coffee, moving it around and you notice the particulates dragging with the indention made by the stirrer -- the warping of the coffee's surface; they swirl into eddies. The stirrer represents "Matter."

    Using this analogy, we might expect that time travel could not exist, for to travel in time, one must put Every Molecule back in the place it was at the time you wish to visit and at the place it was at that time you wish to visit.

    But it also makes the question more apparent. What is it that exists that is affected as time is by gravity and velocity?
    According to Relativity, time is not a constant nor an invention. Rather it is almost both and neither-- which makes the question compelling.
    The particulates in the coffee exist and MUST exist to be affected.
    Time cannot be quantified as those particulates can.
    So... what is that existence?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
  12. chuk15 Registered Senior Member

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    Eh?
     
  13. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    I had wondered if that is what Shadow was driving at. It's not an easy question to formulate.

    Is time something Fundamental? Is it something that can be physically measured like the Higgs Boson may soon be?
    Is it entirely perceptive? Is it an effect as gravity is an effect of Warped Space or a product as Gravity is a product of Higgs Boson interactions with matter? (We don't know that yet

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    I could be wrong-- but I had thought that is what he had meant.
     
  14. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    I am not sure this works or that it is so simple. What are we saying over and above the existence of aging, and other things we attribute to time, that this 'time' thing is?

    There is also the assumption that 'we' age. That some 'thing' undergoes a process. I am not sure we can prove this.

    Last, just to get things rolling

    I assume you are a materialist.

    What is time made of?
     
  15. TBodillia Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    159
    What is length made of?

    Time exists just as length, width, height/altitude/depth/elevation. Their measurements are arbitrary human inventions, but they all exist none the less.
     
  16. John99 Banned Banned

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    22,046
    not really arbitrary. i have to agree with another poster, ultimately time is tied into death. one can argue daylight would also be a factor but then what about places where there is only darkness? Then you look at the first humans and they would obviously catch on to the fact that people are aging so you can put a very rudimentary time period just by going by the aging process. seems like daylight\nightime may be overlooked but aging would never be overlooked even by the most primitive humans.
     
  17. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    I am not sure this argument holds. You have supported one immaterial something by saying we accept another one exists. Further, one can point to length. Can one point to time? To me your argument would support the existence of any posited abstract something? Like souls, for example.

    A related question: is the past real?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
  18. X-Man2 We're under no illusions. Registered Senior Member

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    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
  19. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Stop calling scientists "materialists," that cutesy but obsolete label you picked up from your course in supernaturalist philosophy at Ambassador College.

    For the better part of the last century, "materialist" was what the communists called the capitalists, until they learned that an economy cannot survive without material. No one who was educated before Perestroika is going to get your little in-joke because to them "materialist" is a political term.

    And no one who was educated afterward is going to get it either, because while you were sleeping the universe was deconstructed one level deeper than matter and energy. The updated microcosmological model is comprised of bosons, leptons and quarks. Call us boson-lepton-quarkists, if you prefer.
     
  20. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    and where did you take these courses which put the idea into you head that there was any merit behind the notions of carl jung?

    curious notion, being as communism (well, marxism at least) is a materialistic derivative of hegel's dialectical idealism. and marx did not intend materialism in the metaphysical sense here, so i am unclear as to why any confusion should arise.

    the average reader (well, perhaps one is assuming too much here) can generally discern the sense in which a term is employed from the context. i'm curious as to how you got the notion that economics was being discussed here?

    actually, i suspect anyone who has taken an introductory level philosophy course (within the past 80 or 90 years, that is) would understand the sense in which "materialist" was intended and i'm not quite certain as to the point you are to trying to make with reference to bosons, leptons, and quarks. unless you are going to continue to feign ignorance as to how the term was intended, would you care to expound upon how science does not promote a materialistic ontology?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2010
  21. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    The first link talks about time not existing below Planck time.

    The Second is a goofy laymans description of his inability to grasp a concept and is extraordinarily ATM and gibberish. He also thinks Relativity must be a farce...

    Does Gravity exist?

    Without knowing what Causes the effect, we cannot quantify it precisely.
    Yes, it "exists"" but we cannot say how.
    Strangely, the second link inadvertently affirms this, while pointing out Relativistic effects: If time did not exist, it could not be affected by matter or velocity.

    Does Consciousness exist?
    Yes...
    But its existence is based on the Tangible existence of that which makes its effect apparent.
     
  22. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,160
    .

    what i meant by, does time exist?
    the rotation of the planet, the day and night, the death, gettign older, getting born, it's only a way to manage our lifes, imagine our lifes without time, cause, what happen, just happened, like, a part of teh cycle, you cant go back to it, or say, if i had maked that thing, i would be rich by now, you can't say that, cause you cant change the past, if time exists, can you explain how it exists, and what is time exactly,
    but i think it don't, what happends, happends, and finish, for exapmle, 7 seconds ago, i was writing eerything before this line, but, i finished, i can't go back in time to change what i wrote, inless i edi my post

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    anyway, what insures that time exists?
    if you're going to say getting older, die, day and night, i say no, it's just a part of the life cycle,
     
  23. Echo3Romeo One man wolfpack Registered Senior Member

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    This is seriously the best zinger I've read in months.

    General relativity. Which can be observed by the fact that super-accurate iridium clocks onboard GPS satellites run slower than clocks on the ground, as the satellites are moving faster through space relative to their observers on Earth. GPS clocks therefore need to have their time dilated by several thousand nanoseconds per day.
     
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