Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Greatest I am, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards?

    The Gay marriage issue may be instrumental in the destruction of Church and Mosque discrimination without just cause against certain sub groups within our greater society.

    Notably, Gays, women, slaves and sexual practices.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/h...ous-right-to-discriminate-20110212-1areb.html

    http://www.scarborougheveningnews.co.uk/news/national/fury_over_same_sex_unions_in_church_1_3087271

    The tradition of the Abrahamic cults and sects has been to be anti Gay, anti the equality of women, not emancipating slaves and telling consenting adults how to handle themselves in sexual matters.

    Gays are said to be abominations.
    Men are told to never allow a woman to have authority over them.
    Women are told to submit to their male masters.
    Run away slaves are told to return to their masters and the masters are told just how to beat their slaves. Nowhere in Christianity or Islam is there instructions to emancipate or free slaves.

    In our secular worlds, do Christianity and Islam have the right to promote these discriminations that exceed and go directly against the humanistic thinking that the rest of the secular world seem to be going in?

    Our Governments create laws and every law is permission and indeed compulsion to discriminate against certain sub groups within our societies. These laws can be questioned and repealed if society deems them against human rights and we see this happening in an ongoing basis and notably of late, we have recognized the inappropriateness of discriminating against Gays and others for reasons of sexual orientation and divorce. Religion forbids a change in dogma and frown against any questioning.

    Should Government put a stop to these groups who are in effect usurping the power of the state and your vote?

    We are in effect being lead by religion and not the state or Government we vote for.
    Just who is the boss and why is my vote and yours being nullified by Religion and their ultra conservative agenda?

    Churches and Mosques are discriminating against those that society has found innocent of wrongdoing.
    Should Religions be told and or forced to stop doing so?
    Have Religions crossed the line of separation of Church and State?

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    "First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)

    You or some family member may be next on a Religious hit list my friend.
    Think about it.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  3. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    3,028
    No, no rights over civil law for those claiming the invisible imaginary as a 'known'.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
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  5. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, the church does have a right to discriminate against whomever they wish as long as they do not receive money from the government apart from their tax break.
     
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  7. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I see. So we as tax payers pay by not taxing them for them to go against the status quo and they can discriminate in ways that we as individuals or organizations and business would be sued for. Immunity from the law IOW.

    If individuals did such we would be up in arms but you think it is ok for religions to do so.

    Strange and immoral philosophy.

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, there is no law against private individuals or groups discriminating.
     
  9. siphra Registered Senior Member

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    344
    What did my reply get deleted?!
     
  10. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    There are two of these threads.
     
  11. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    B S.
    If any H R person other than within religion tried using the standards that religions do, the system would drop down on them so hard they would pay a heavy price.

    What would you do if you were fired because you divorced your mate if you worked for a religious organization?

    Regards
    DL
     
  12. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Perhaps it is in the religion section. I will look for it.

    You can re-enter it here if you like.

    Regards
    DL
     
  13. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    53,966
    Religious employers are exempt from the law regarding discrimination because many religions prohibit certain kinds of behaviors. If you did not allow that, you would effectively be trying to control religious beliefs.

    The actual law is the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
     
  14. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Actually, I will point out several misconceptions you have here.

    In Mosaic law, a slave was a slave only for seven years.At the end of that time they were immediately emancipated unless they desired to remain a slave for life. Almost all salves were people who sold themselves in order to pay debts. The few exceptions being criminals and prisoners of war.

    Only in the Kin James Bible is it the cammand of God that women be second class citizen. Yes, it was commongly done before hand, but it was more society not religon.

    In Islamic law it is a Sin for one Muslim to own another. So a slave that converts to islam must be freed.



    People are petty, vindictive, and very competitive creatures by nature. It isnlt religon that made us so, but we who made religon so.

    I would also point out that modern religon bears very little in common the archaix forms that had an irongrip on everything.
     
  15. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    3,634
    Actually, if you refuse to allow gay men in your home, you cannot be sued. You *might* be sued under state law if you run a business and discriminate against gay employees (but there is no federal law on that, and not every State has one either). In some States, you could be sued for discriminating against a gay employee, but still could discriminate against a gay customer.

    The basic freedom being preserved in general is that, as a private citizen, you have the right to associate with (or not associate with) whomever you like. If you don't like Armenians, kick 'em out.

    When you run a business or commercial venture though, state and federal laws limit discrimination in that arena.

    Because churches are deemed not to be businesses though, they tend to be exempt from the law insofar as they are performing their religious functions. When churches dip into the commercial realm, they ARE taxed (on their so-called "unrelated business income") and they are subject to anti-discrimination laws with respect to that activity.
     
  16. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    3,634
    I think that was for Hebrew slaves only.
     
  17. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    10,848
    No,

    The Torah and scrolls of the 12 minor prophets state that after 7 years your debts are fully paid off.

    7 days fasting and abstinence will also be enough for god to forgive you. For man forgives man in seven years but God forgives 7 years of wicked-ness in 7 days of kind-ness.


    Peace.
     
  18. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,634
    Do you have a citation I could look at (not that I don't believe you, but I am curious to see)? I was recollecting Exodus 21:2-7, based on the addition "unless they desired to remain a slave":

    "If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment. If he comes alone, he shall go out alone; if he is the husband of a wife, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,' then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently."
     
  19. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Thanks for confirming my view of slavery and showing some of the various intricacies.

    As to women, I think that the law against coveting that places women at a lower value than your neighbors ass is all anyone would have to see to know where most women were in that society.

    Is lam followed suit as shown in the imposition of dress codes and the so called rape law of Afghanistan.

    Regards
    DL
     
  20. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    I am a Canadian and recognize that although our laws are close, there are still some areas in the U S that are not quite up to par. Like some of your states where religion instigated sodomy laws exist. Your Federal and state system is also strange.
    Some day you will improve it I am sure.

    Regards
    DL
     
  21. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    3,634
    My mistake, I thought you had a legitimate desire for information, when in reality you just wanted to pretend, snidely, that Canada--America's effeminate neighbor to the north--was superior.

    Thanks. We are backward down here, to be sure, but by the standards we care about (i.e. if we decided to kick your asses, we would also have to decide what to do with the rest of our afternoon) we're doing okay.
     
  22. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    8,967
    I am an American living in Canada, and although I recognize that the laws aren't quite the same, there are still some areas in Canada that are not quite up to par.

    Like Canada is the fucking paragon of democracy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2011
  23. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Is that the U S answer, or just yours. Might makes right?

    Regards
    DL
     

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