Does space bend In a pure vacuum ?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by river, Dec 15, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Disagree

    Sub-atomic protons existed as well , which allows electromagnetic energy to exist .
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. river

    Messages:
    17,307

    Disagree

    Electromagnetic energy forms need a physical form from which to emminate from . How could electromagnetic energy form and emminate without any physical form ? Dave
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    Electromagnetic energy did not form from matter.
    It's the other way around.
    Matter formed from electromagnetic energy.
    EMR is more fundamental to the universe than matter.


    Subatomic particles did not form until well into the inflationary period.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    What is it curving , physically ?
     
  8. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Then how did electromagnetic form ?
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    Well, that's the big question. There are several theories as to what symmetries the forces had before inflation. They generally agree that gravity peeled away first, leaving the electronuclear force (of the grand Unified Theory). Then the strong nuclear force peeled away, leaving the electroweak force. Finally, the weak nuclear force peeled away leaving the electromagnetic force.

    That's the 4 fundamental forces we see today.
     
  10. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    All of which have in essence a physical form basis .
     
  11. geordief Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,118
    So is inflation supposed to have taken place after these 4(?) forces separated out ,followed again by expansion?

    Is it generally supposed that gravity was a force like the others given that I keep being told it is synonymous with spacetime (and so ,apparently a geometry rather than a "force") ?

    It is still (hopefully) lumped in with the other 3 known forces at the very "outset" (if there was an "outset")
     
  12. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    There is at the very " outset " , all forms of energy and matter existed at the same moment . From the micro to the macro , in no particular order of existence .
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    "Physical form" is a kind of ambiguous term. It was way, way too hot for protons, let alone atoms. It was even too hot for quarks.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    This might help:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_epochs_in_cosmology


    Force and curvature are models. We made the models to describe what we think is happening.
    Saying it's a force or a curvature doesn't really mean much.

    Yes. Gravity broke away first.

    In the early part of the universe, they were all symmetrical, but as the universe cooled and expanding, they broke the symmetry, one by one.

    Think of a small bed sheet on a large mattress. The bedsheet is wrapped around all corners, but the mattress is bowed inward and under tension.

    The bedsheet is symmetrical, but unstable.

    As the mattress settles flat, first one corner then another pops off the mattress. The bed sheet is now stable, but no longer symmetrical. This is our current universe, and why the forces all look different, even though they're fundamentally part of the same symmetry.
     
  15. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,695
    You have completely misunderstood my #20 post. Not unexpected. Also not unexpected that the poster I qouted in #20 has avoided acknowledging his error.
     
  16. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,695
    Again false. In both pre-inflationary and post-inflationary eras, matter and force carriers necessarily appeared together - as a package. In each successive phase change. Your statement contradicts the Wiki article you linked to in #31. And your bed sheet analogy there is far too crude to be of real use.
    Check your own Wiki link in #31 again. They formed after inflation ended, according to standard picture.
     
  17. river

    Messages:
    17,307

    Fine , then explain in more detail your meaning in #20 . What did I misunderstand ?
     
  18. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    What theory of pre-inflationary and post-post-inflationary are you referring to ?
     
  19. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Because for me your saying that all forms of energy and matter existed at the same moment . It sounds alot like my thinking , that all forms of matter and energy , have always existed together , not separate from each in time .
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    OK, so river is engaged in a two-way conversation with himself.
     
  21. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Just asking questions Dave ; and replying to Q-reeus responses to you and me . Whats the problem ? I see none .
     
  22. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,695
    It's self-explanatory. Similarly for your query in #35. Why not just study the Wikipedia article linked to in #31? Do that and hopefully you should have no further questions.
    Another one: http://physicsanduniverse.com/standard-model-of-the-big-bang-theory/
     
  23. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    The Universe does not evolve .

    The Universe de-involves into nothing . It is non-sustainable . In the standard -model -of-the-big-bang-theory .
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page