Does Physics disprove the existence of free will?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by M.I.D, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No, I'm not. I am explicitly and repeatedly dismissing that possibility - have been, throughout, over and over and over again.
    That is the supernatural assumption of freedom of will. I recommend you drop it - it seems to be misleading you.
    That hypothesis of "reality" is in conflict with the behavior of the human mind - as recorded in laboratory settings, and measured in controlled experiments, and observed in the field. Actions of the human will are identifiable in brain scans, for chrissake.
    The choosing is what determines the outcome, and the alternatives are measured, recorded, experimentally verified, reproducible facts.

    Compare a human driver approaching a traffic light with a brick approaching a traffic light - or a snowstorm approaching a traffic light, if you insist.
     
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  3. Capracus Valued Senior Member

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    If the will is guided by elements outside the set of the individual, then that will is not free.
    How is an accounting of all the elemental factors that determine human action in conflict with observed human behavior? The factors monitored in the various experiments you describe are not designed for a complete accounting of all the factors that lead to a given outcome. How does a brain scan demonstrate free will?
    Only in the sense that it wasn’t the human doing the choosing. The human was essentially a tool of the universe in manifesting a given outcome.
    Each must behave at the traffic light according to the dictates of their evolutionary history. And when I say each, I mean the material behavior at every level of constituency. After all each defined entity is just a collection of material stuff that is at the mercy of a bigger collection of material stuff.
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Then we may begin with this, "Quorum Sensing" and if that function is consciously controllable. IMO, this is what the ORCH-OR hypothesis is based on.
    This is "decision making" at its very smallest fundamental chemical level.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Informed decisions made according to perceived criteria are not free by assumption?
    The supernatural assumption is confusing you. Badly.

    People making decisions based on their ideas and information they acquire exhibit a great deal of freedom. Watch a basketball game.
    What their evolutionary history has "dictated" is that they have the capability of making decisions, choosing among alternatives according to incoming information.
    Including the level we call the "human mind". That's the "level of constituency" making the decision at hand (traffic light). You have to stretch your definition of "material" quite a bit past the usual, to encompass it, but if you want to - - - .
    If you are going to expand the category "material" to include patterns of action at the level of the conscious human mind, you would be better off junking words like "just".
    You contradict yourself. The human did the choosing - whether as a "tool of the universe" or not, "essentially" or any other way.
    It isn't. You had overlooked some major factors, is all.
    It records the substrate manifestations of the behavior of the mind when making a decision and generating an act of will. The matter of freedom remains a matter of discussion - still open, btw, if we can ever get past the supernatural assumption.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    @ Iceaura,
    Would you be a Compatibilist?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism
     

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