Does Physics disprove the existence of free will?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by M.I.D, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Precisely and of course it is a useless exercise. But I would suggest that it is more reflex than trust.
    However, it is a common experience. So much so, that the practice has been named the "passenger brake"
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Passenger Brake

    Free will is not exercised in such situations. It is all instinctual, straight from the medulla.

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    http://brainmadesimple.com/medulla-oblongata.html
     
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  3. river

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    Trust does influence the reflex .

    More trust less reflex
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, yes, I can go with that. Comfort.
    I am describing a situation which is inherently dangerous and causal to flooding of hormones, which compel reactive physical responses.
    A more considerate Limbic brain evolved later
    http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/d/d_05/d_05_cr/d_05_cr_her/d_05_cr_her.html[/quote]
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I have driven many hundreds of thousands of miles, and taught several young people how to drive. When teaching, I felt the reflexive urge display would be counterproductive - as well as all other signs of nervousness, any distracting behavior, etc. So I adopted a calm demeanor, and if that required crossing my legs and leaning back and breathing with control (another "reflex" one can manage, by acts of will) and consigning my fate to the gods then that's what I did.

    And those are extreme cases. In the ordinary course of events, with a reasonably competent driver (I have also ridden tens of thousands of miles shotgun, in work trucks), that reflex is not very strong in the first place.
    What are you trying to argue? I guarantee you almost all "subconscious" learned reflexes can be and have been brought under conscious management and decision, altered or even eliminated in expression, by somebody somewhere sometime. If your argument depends on consciousness being unable to control, manage, and alter the learned subconscious reflexes underlying all behavior it's dead in the water.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  8. river

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  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No, of course not. But under severe stress reason and logic tend to go out the window and we act on instinct. The "fight or flight" compulsion. That is the "reptilian brain".

    Under stress Ants have only one compulsion, "fight" to the death. They don't "think at all".
     
  10. river

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    Disagree

    Under sever stress reason and logic over come emotion .
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    So you considered the problem beforehand and applied it under relatively low stress situations.

    I am talking about life threatening immediacy.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Only if you have time to think ......
     
  13. river

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    Okay so your point ?
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Free will does not exist under such conditions.
     
  15. river

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    No it is instinct
     
  16. river

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    Instinct evolves
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    When you were only 1 day old freewill also didn't exist for you. You had to grow and learn how to become independent and self determined. It is a life long challenge to strive to achieve maintain and improve our ability to self determine.

    Freedom doesn't come cheap.


    When a person is suffering severe dementia or other debilitating illnesses freewill is also compromised sometimes completely. When you are in a coma lying on your back in a hospital vegetating and utterly dependent on others for survival free will is also absent.
    So?
    Your desire to provide exceptions does not invalidate the instances of the unexceptional.

    You know, this so why are you posting exceptions as proof that freewill is non-existent?
    I can provide thousands of exceptions with out much thought easily and I am sure so can you so why?
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Higher stress than the ones you described as beyond conscious control.
    You were talking about the "passenger brake" reflex often developed by experienced drivers.
    Have you ever taught an adolescent how to drive, in your car?
    And yet some people make and carry out conscious decisions, choosing between alternatives according to the information they acquire, changing their decisions in light of all manner of inputs relevant and irrelevant, in those conditions.

    There is less freedom of will in some situations than in others, and for some people compared with others. There may even be none, in extreme circumstances (drowning swimmer). So?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Then it's not free will choice.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    OK, one can approach the problem from two different perspectives.

    If we can prove that Determinism is true, discussion on FW becomes moot.
    If we can prove that FW can be true, discussion on Determinisn becomes moot

    And there is the Compatibilist perspective which holds that FW can be true under certain circumstances in an otherwise Deterministic world.

    Seems to me that finding truth in various discreet examples on any of these perspectives automatically renders the other arguments moot or true.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  21. river

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    Primative instinct lacks free-will .

    Knowledge changes all this
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That is what we are testing, no?

    Lest we forget, so far no one has come up with a non-deterministic model of the world except for Humans, who somehow can manipulate Determinism? Kinda like Gods?

    That's a powerful statement in view of the prevailing Laws of Physics.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  23. river

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    Yes
     

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