Does light always travel at lightspeed?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by proycon, Apr 8, 2002.

  1. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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  3. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, there is an association, but probably not the one that recognizes that gravity involves wave energy. My views on the subject are related to an hypothesis, "Gravity's Mechanism" hypothesis, which I discuss on a thread by the same name. I don't mean to promote my views on this thread, and even on that thread I am on thin ice with possible moderation action pending.

    I don't understand the statement about simple refraction and the Schwarzschild solution.
     
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  5. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    You're probably not the one to understand what Kevin Brown wrote down.
     
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  7. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Probably not; I'm also not in your league in physics and math. But I missed the reference to Kevin Brown; what did he write down, or should I Google it?
     
  8. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  9. brucep Valued Senior Member

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    It's the link I included from the Kevin Brown text 'Reflections on Relativity'.
     
  10. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Well I'll be darned, I checked Trooper's link and I am quite familiar with Huygens' theory of light wave propagation. In fact I reference it in my rantings, and equate it to my idea of the advance of gravity waves.

    Thanks for the nudge, I'll see if I can understand any of what Kevin Brown wrote. Just a note about it though, I do understand the concept of variable refractivity, and I think that it is consistent with my rantings when discussing the wave energy density surrounding a massive object.
     
  11. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    What can I say. We don't know what gravity's mechanism is about yet. It is far from a consensus that there is wave energy involved, but if so, then the wave energy density would be greater near massive objects than in deep space. The difference in energy density near objects could have a higher refractive index than deep space, and thus would bend light as it passes the massive object.
    Theoretically, no. It is a consensus that light is self propagating via transverse electric and magnetic fields, and can therefore pass through the vacuum of space, even space that is said to be free of any medium.

    But there are alternative ideas that there is no space that is completely empty. In quantum mechanics, I think that space is said to have the potential for virtual particle generation, and in EM theory, space has characteristics like permittivity and permeability, which determine the speed of light.
     
  12. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I think I will hitch my wagon so to speak to Einstein and GR instead of your idea.
     
  13. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I think that's perfectly understandable.
     
  14. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    "Virtual particle generation", yes I've seen the science shows that talk about that subject. Not sure I buy into it though, but if it's really something that is close to the truth, space would be a real medium wouldn't it? Also, if the virtual particle generation was increasing even just a tiny bit over time, it could go a long way to explaining the expansion of our universe. But like I said, I find it a hard concept to buy into.
     
  15. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Well, virtual particles are supposedly generated from the "energy of space" under specific conditions which I think are what the theory of zero point energy is based on. However, I wouldn't think that virtual particle generation would be increasing in an expanding universe, but someone else would certainally be able to correct us both.
     
  16. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I had a similar discussion with Prof.Layman a few months back on the topic of how light advances through glass, and he insisted that light traveled at the same speed at all times, but the reason it appeared to slow when passing through glass was that it was being absorbed and re-radiated and therefore it didn't take a straight path through the glass medium. He couldn't provide a link but seemed sure of himself and I never followed up for confirmation. When I saw the arguments from others here about the cause of the refraction and slowing of light through glass, I thought it would be a good chance to get confirmation, though it was contrary to my suspicions.

    Why or how could a simple layman have any convictions or suspicions on the nature of light passing through a medium? Only because there are some problems with reconciling the advance of light though empty space in my view, and so I studied light, contemplated what we observe, and derived a personal, non-scientific view of how light might advance based on wave fronts and spherical pinhole action along the wave fronts.

    In order for my personal view to be true, light has to bend when entering and passing through a gravitational environment. The reason it has to bend according to my hypothesis of gravity is that gravity involves higher wave energy density as you approach a massive object like a star, for example, but of course glass would have higher internal wave energy density and should slow the advance of light as well.

    The high wave energy density featured in my hypothesis is due to the fact that matter is composed of standing wave energy. That means that the presence of particles is sustained by a continual process of inflowing and out flowing wave energy. The inflowing wave energy is coming from other particles and the out flowing wave energy is always exiting spherically with a time delay. The wave energy exits equally in all directions as it exits the standing wave pattern of the particles, and as it exits any object, including stars for example.

    That means that glass, which is composed of atoms and molecules, has high density wave action going on within it that sustains the presence of the particles, relative to the wave energy density of air. The refractive index of a medium is always equal to the speed of light through air which is set to equal ~1, divided by the speed of light through the medium.

    If the explanation for light passing through glass slower than through the air was not due to the high wave energy density of the glass, but instead was due to the absorption and re-radiation, then my concept of the standing wave nature of particles would not be necessary to explain why light slows down in glass. So I simply was looking for confirmation form Prof.Layman, or KillJoyKlown, or Origin, that the explanation of absorption and re-admission was correct so that I could put my idea to rest.

    Now, after the failure of anyone to prove that light passes through various mediums by absorption/re-radiation instead of by passing through the unseen high wave energy density associated with the presence of particles, the idea of the high energy density of the glass relative to the air being the explanation for the refractive index is still not falsified. And also, no one seemed to notice but me, lol. (Except maybe brucep)
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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  17. Boris2 Valued Senior Member

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    this is a reply to light traveling through glass that was gien on another forum. not longer in existance. the guy who gave it is trustworthy in respect to these topics IMO. take it as given.

     
  18. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, it makes sense within the constraints of current theory. My non-science hypothesis simply might be a combination of those dancing charges, and the inflowing and out flowing wave energy. The EM jostles the position of the atoms and molecules that are constrained by their bonds, and the spherical out flowing wave energy from the bound particles equalizes the wave energy density across the entire medium (internal wave energy density environment of the glass). This equalization of wave energy density would be much more efficient at slowing a given wavelength of light uniformly across the medium, wouldn't it?
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  19. Markus Hanke Registered Senior Member

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    Light traces out null geodesics in space-time; since for such geodesics the infinitesimal line element connecting neighbouring points must vanish everywhere

    \(\displaystyle{ds^{2}=0}\)

    it cannot do anything else but propagate at exactly c.
     

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