does life have a meaning?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Ronhrin, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. duendy Registered Senior Member

    oh yesh, objectivity is bloody marvelous isn't it. we are currently seeing Nature being further more and more exploited at every turn, global warming, millions of people poverty stricken and starving, species going extince in their thousands, more and more people--millions in the 'sceintific-objectified' west having to take psychiatric medication, so much so i read in our Observer sunday paper on its front page that prozac is finding its way into the water systems due to its being pissed and shit out by so many people, and its toxix

    so who are you kidding that objectification is the best thing to hit the planet. it has dessacralzzed Nature, and our sense of ourselves, ...who the ...would WANT to live longer in this world? only surely the ones who worship this nightmare. i am jnot one of them
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  3. water the sea Registered Senior Member

    You mean "anything for which we refuse a scientific explanation is regarded as supernatual"?

    I am not abandoning science, I bet I would be among the last ones to do it. But I like the creative personal touch to things. Hah.

    Don't you dare "come on Rosa" me!

    Oh, and what do we have from this reduced mortality and extended longevity? More time to spend ... doing ... what?
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  5. water the sea Registered Senior Member

    See, there you go! This is where I was waiting for you.

    You have conceptualized this hard-wired admiration in a more scientific manner, while some other people conceptualize it in a more artistic manner. But both are talking about the SAME THING.

    Some people however, who do not have the same scientific experience like you, view science as a cold place, with no room for things like admiration. To them, the scientific explanation certainly does not suffice.

    I know scientists who do not admire. But with you, this admiration seems to be very much a matter of fact, a felicitious coincidence even.
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  7. duendy Registered Senior Member

    EXACCTLY! doing WHAT? looking at a toxic fukin car park? cause thats where your cut off objective trip's leading us. and really you know your view of science is a rusty old one. checkout the cuttin edge is what i am saying. i'm not anti-science, i am anti-mechano scitenTISM

    and btw, that website 'carrotsandaliens is very very creative. love it
  8. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

    No, I meant what I said!

    However I think u are trying to say to me that u didn't necessarily say that. That u DO believe that science is correct in this regard, but u don't want to believe it. Am I right?! :bugeye:

    Why not?

    Whats NOT creative about science?!

    I love saying it!!! It makes me feel like one of your parents

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    living of course

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  9. ck27 Registered Senior Member

    I would like to post what i think. IN the big picture life has no meaning at all. Their is no standard meaning to why we live. We just do.
  10. water the sea Registered Senior Member

    No. You're not right. I am against rigid scientific minimalism though.

    I just can't.

    What is not creative about science is the wannabe scientists. Those who have abandoned religion out of some fear, and put science into its place, and now they worship it the same way as they used to worship God.

    But I delight in a real scientist. It takes blood and guts to be a good scientist though.

    This is roundabout *the* weirdest remark you have made ever since I've known you. You are indeed being creative.

    Oh. And make new problems ... so that science has something to do -- in trying to solve them?
  11. Eric Registered Member

    The meaning of life,,the question exist to person when they are trying to get a life ( grip ) to really get an idea of what is going on, one would have to see and understand that no one has to DIE,,

    It takes a tousand years to be done with living in the flesh,,and that is how long one can live and understand. We are in total control of our selves, Because you see people Die does not mean you have to.

    So the question exist because you assume you have to die, but when you understand that to have life you must work for it, then the question needs not be asked.

    After the thousand years you give up the body but the spirit will continue on
    and the flesh will vanish,, you will not go in a grave.

    The universe is comprised of six things only six, if you can understand those six you can overcome death.

    The six things that makes up the universe includes every thing and every one.

    As we have manifest ti was also fit that a tool to acheive this also manifested at the same time and that tool is the opposite of self ( male ? female )

    All question and understanding will come to one when he or she tries to merge with the opposite.

    With seeing it is not possible to merge with the oppisite, it can become clear to the person that the six bases exist and it has LAWS then one can project the possobility of the merge and remove the illision of options and work straight away with the laws of the six bases which can give contro; over self.
    Thus life if you want and the question will not be asked ( what is the meaning of life ) ...

  12. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

    Are u sure I'm not right?

    U should never refuse a scientific explanation IMO.


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    I believe most scientists respect science and are against the notion of worshipping anything.

    What's the definition of a real scientist? Why does it take blood and guts to be one?

    Thank u

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    there's never need to make new problems in this crazy world of ours!
  13. water the sea Registered Senior Member

    Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. I have nothing against science as such, but I am against rigid scientific minimalism though.

    I don't.

    What? There is a point where I refuse to be "rational" and depend entirely on my emotions. Some may call me "stubborn" and "unmanageable" because of that -- but that's just how I am. I am catty like that. And *never* would I trade this feeling for any scientific explanation.

    I really hope it is so.

    A real scientist is such who truly abides to the principles of science and logic -- in short, who does not bend scientific principles and logic for his temporary purposes (like "adjusting data"). It takes blood and guts to stick to the results of your research -- as they may often be quite everything but pleasing. Also, it takes those blood and guts to also be a human all along that scientific way.

    Oh, but people do make new problems ...
  14. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

    Please explain
  15. water the sea Registered Senior Member

    With delight.
    My above statements are an obvious contradiction, my knowledge system appears to be gravely inconsistent.

    But: Within a longer period of time, a learning knowledge system is necessarily inconsistent within itself. When we learn, we do not just add new data, but we also alter already existing data or reconceptualize already existing understandings.

    E.g., at T1 we knew "After physical activity, muscles hurt because of the acid that builds up in them", while at T2 we know "After physical activity, muscles hurt because the fibres rip". If the observed time frame includes both T1 and T2, our knowledge shows up inconsitency.

    If we take a much smaller time frame, the knowledge system may very well appear consistent. But the question is: How do we come from one system to another? For we do, if knowledge in T1 is not the same as in T2. Do we leap, with blank spaces inbetween?

    I don't know how else to explain this -- but that our knowledge system has a meta-system that allows for learning, that allows for states of temporary inconsistency. These states are apparently necessary, or the process of learning would be limited only to loading up data that fits the already existing knowledge patterns.

    So when I said "And *never* would I trade this feeling for any scientific explanation. ", I was actually refering to one of those functions this meta-system has.

    At some point, we give up rationality based on already existing data, and allow for a two-way inductive process: an understanding that is rational on the basis of *new* evidence that this very understanding enables us to see. In other words, insight. Strange, but this seems possible only if we are willing to give up strict rationality for a while.
  16. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

    Logicly life has no meaning. I have noticed through my observations throughout life that there is no meaning or purpose for anything we do.
    Everything has an opposite an opposing force and they cancel eachother out.
    Every actions has an equal and opposite reaction. I made up a simple equation that makes this idea a little more understandable.

    -1 will be the number for all things negative

    1 well be the number for all things positive

    If you think that life isnt broke up into negative and positive you makeing this too complex. This is a very simple idea.


    0 is the outcome of all things negative and positive

    What purpose does 0 have?

    You may be thinking that this equation doesnt apply to life because life is too complex but i think life is very simple if you arent cought up in the details which to me are just distractions or white noise.

    In the end you will die, In the end we all will die.
    The end result is the complete opposite of the begining result.

    Whatever purpose or meaning you can give to life is overshadowed by the big picture. You can attach some meaning to certain things to make yourself feel like your accomplishing something or that you have some purpose. In all reality your in denial and scared of the idea that your life is totaly pointless.

    If you save a life you have only delayed death.
    If you make a life you have only created death.
    One will be happy when another is sad.
    There will be a time when all actions of all things every created will be erased. There will be no past present or future. There will be no history to remember no future to look forward to and no present to live in. All will be gone and everything ever done will have ment nothing.

    This is my opinion and belief, I am not presenting this as a fact for in all reality i dont know. And true knowledge lies in knowing you know nothing.
  17. Kunax Sciforums:Reality not required Registered Senior Member

    What are you insane

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    , try and count to 10, 0 is the begenning and the end

    logicaly your fucked with out 0
  18. duendy Registered Senior Member

    Life is FULL of meaning. like Nature it is prolificaLLy abundantly overflowing like a
    depthless is our depths because we ARe Nature. it isn't 'nature over over here' we ARe Nature...process. and this dynamic living process Is Meaning, and this Meaning is inclusive of polar related complimentary oppo-sites, like hot and cold, dry and wet, light and dark, good and bad, terror and ecstasy, life and death

    Death isn't some 'abstract' entity waiting to swallow us up at the end of that other 'abstract' our thinking brain has conjured--thus assuming an antagonism, strife, conflict betwixt 'death' and 'life'.
    Rather death is intimately interealted WITh the process. so for example, every
    movement you make is constantly dying, and simultaneously living. what PHYSICAL death means is a dramatic part of this dance.
    obviously we can't stay in the same body for ever and ever and ever. that aint natural. and you lose being 'suzy' or peter' or Mr Hunter, or Ms Widlow or whatever.....but the MEANING is not necessarily the role you are playing...the social role where you think 'i am an american, englishman, am a this or that (ie., in work).....your and my essence is awareness. and our awreness are unique. and this awareness awarenesses in unique ways........ask the Robin, Dolphin, Elephant, or your friend
  19. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

    Yes kunax and you totaly missed what i was saying, you are acting like 0 has some meaning other that the begining and the should realise that what i was trying to get accross is that there is nor reason or purpose for 0......if it is the begining and end that only proves that is it pointless.....Its a concept many cant understand. and by the way, what is the purpose behind counting to 10? and try not to think of the noisy details......think of the big may have a meaning in the trivial details of it all but in the grand scale of things there is no real purpose for anything.....that is what i am getting at

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    and yes i do think i am insane at times

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    Its a curse and a gift.
  20. sly1 Heartless Registered Senior Member

    Duendy....I like your reply as it is most insitefull into another seems you pretend to know what death is and or how it think of death and whatever about it makes sense to you becomes your set of reality rules.....

    "One mans Reality is another mans Fantasy"

  21. Sirius83 Registered Senior Member

    Life...what is its meaning? Personally - and I know this has been said here before - I say there is no real meaning to life.

    If you look at ones personal life, well for me it would be to learn as much as I can, and enjoy what I can. Looking at the scale of humanity, I would say the purpose of life is procreation; for the continued existence of our species.

    However, at the end of the day, why are we here? I go by the idea that life is the result of a chemical reaction during the creation of our world. This process probably happened all across the universe and is likely very common. Now, over time, life evolved into what we know today; some of it into us - human beings. We are capable of advanced thought and engineering. We can think things out on an advanced level(compared to other life forms on Earth) and build things. Simple as that. It doesn't mean there is some higher reason for being, some grand meaning of life.

    On the scale of the Universe, there is no meaning to life. It's just the result of one of the many reactions that occur in the Universe.
  22. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

    Best line I've ever heard. Life is just another chemical reaction. Get over it

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  23. Working Class Hero Skank Monster Registered Senior Member

    The meaning of life is life itself, if your not satisfied then there must be something wrong with you...

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