Does Jesus have a soul?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Greatest I am, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Does Jesus have a soul?

    The hierarchy in heaven is God above and all souls below his position followed by angels if you happen to believe in those. That being the case, the human part of Jesus would also be below God and not at the right hand of God. No human soul can sit beside or be equal to God.

    The God part of Jesus would be equal to the Father and Holy Spirit thus indistinguishable from either if he manifested himself. He could then sit at God’s right hand but his soul, being less than God-like could not.

    If Jesus is at the highest level with God and it is impossible for a soul to be at that level, this indicates that Jesus somehow had two consciousnesses, one divine and one human in the same body on earth and that they would separate upon reaching heaven. That or Jesus had no soul.

    If Jesus was not divine and a part of that strange Trinity concept, then he could not sit at the right hand of God as only God can sit at the highest level.

    I see an impossible catch 22 here and wondered if any Christian could shed some light to get out of this catch 22.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  3. arauca Banned Banned

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    As for me it is not important who sits were, He ( God ) can do whatever He wants, God is life and He can shear Himself any way he wants and with ever He wants
     
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  5. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    Come on GIA, this is Christian mythology 101. The father, the son and the holy spirit are the same entity, manifesting in different ways. Even though I think it has no basis in reality, I've never understood why people can't get their head around what seems to me to be a pretty basic metaphysical concept.
     
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  7. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps because it makes no sense.

    If they eh, he, are, eh is, all God then Jesus cannot die can he?

    Or do you have a quote that says God can die?

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I agree. The sitting is not that important but the question of Jesus having a soul is as it leads to many implications.

    Regards
    DL
     
  9. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    He didn't die. The physical body he inhabited died. In fact according to Christian mythology as well as that of a lot of other religions, everyone is essentially spiritually immortal.
     
  10. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    So if the body was just what we would call a soulless mule that God was riding, then it was just a useless hulk to God and it's sacrifice had no value. Right?

    Regards
    DL
     
  11. arauca Banned Banned

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    4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18. 4
     
  12. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    The whole point was for God to fully immerse himself in a human form; to live out a fleshly existence complete with all the genuine trials and tribulations that go with it. In his case, it ultimately culminated in one of the most torturous ordeals imaginable, finally resulting in physical death. Some theologians argue, from scripture, that Jesus even spent time suffering in Hell before briefly taking physical form again (the resurrection). If the Bible is to be believed, God experienced that, not as a detached transcendent entity, but first hand. So while you can certainly debate about whether or not it was truly the ultimate sacrifice (given that the suffering was temporary, and that Jesus always knew he would rise again in a rather glorious manner), to say that it wasn't even significant at all is to fail to understand Christian theology.

    The way to attack Christianity these days, GIA, especially when you don't understand it very well, is to forget about the theology itself and focus on the historicity/veracity of the scripture it is based on. It's basically been thoroughly torn to shreds by Professor Dennis R. MacDonald in his book "The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark". This is something of a groundbreaking work, and I challenge any open-minded person not to come away from the content without feeling as if the whole deal has been blown wide open. It's a game changer, and what people who have a chip on their shoulder about Christianity have been waiting for. The main substance of it has been quite effectively condensed into a video series by a third party, starting here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOzCMy9e5E&feature=player_embedded&list=PL1D58C69D194384D2
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  13. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, I missed this. Anyway...

    You clearly don't understand what "death" means in the Christian context. I mean, to apply this implied simplistic definition of yours, when Jesus died on the cross, he was gone forever, never to rise again. Clearly this is not consistent with mainstream Christian theology. Rather, the soul never dies, regardless of it's location/eternal destination (hence my characterization of the soul as an immortal entity). There are of course more liberal views that suggest that damnation/eternal destruction are metaphors for a total cessation of existence, but then you're not really paying attention to scripture anymore, in which case you might as well drop any pretense that it's the authority behind that which you speak.
     
  14. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    not any more.
    my friend, jesus, down the street still has his though.
     
  15. KitemanSA Registered Senior Member

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    Ya just gotta have faith.
     
  16. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Nice one Rav.
    I apreciate it.

    jan
     
  17. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Therein lies the problem. Theists are anything but open minded.

    Regards
    DL
     
  18. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Whose problem is that?

    Yours.
     
  19. Freelance Policeman Registered Member

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    Wouldn't it be possible for a human to have a divine spirit inhabiting his body instead of a human one? There's no need for a dual soul. And in regards to Jesus' divinity, he made it quite clear that he was not the Father, or YHWH. YHWH referred to himself often as "The Most High God." If a "god" is anything superior to humans, then Jesus would qualify as a god. But he would not be equal to the Father.


    I actually agree with your first sentence; the Trinity is mythology. The reason people can't "wrap their heads around it" is because it completely contradicts the Bible.
     
  20. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    If equal to God then he would be spirit only as that is what God is.

    Regards
    DL
     

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