Does Israeli Elite Believe They Are The Master Race?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by common_sense_seeker, Jun 2, 2010.

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Do You Think That The Israeli Elite Believe They Are The Master Race?

  1. No - this is a complete fallacy

    11 vote(s)
    39.3%
  2. Yes - it pervades the attitude of their TV representatives

    12 vote(s)
    42.9%
  3. I don't know - what are you talking about?

    5 vote(s)
    17.9%
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  1. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    I'm a third generation for holocaust survivors. My family burnt in Auschwitz and had its money stolen to fund fat Europeans. You have to be a complete idiot to say something like that to me.

    But you are an ignorant fool. You have to justify your Jew hating somehow.
     
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  3. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Who exactly are you referring to as the "Israeli Elite"?
     
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  5. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    All right:

    Islam itself is not akin to Nazism. This is a disconnect.
     
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  7. Bells Staff Member

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    I also question and criticise my Government and the US Government. This thread and some of the others dealt specifically with the Israeli Government. So... I shouldn't have to point it out to you as it should be obvious, even to you.

    I don't talk trash about Jews. I have no problems with Jews as a whole. If some individuals act like arseholes and they happen to be Jewish, I'll tell them their an arsehole. I think Geoff is an arse and a hypocrite and he's not Jewish. In short, I don't restrict my opinion to just Jews. I hate everyone equally.

    I will question any policy that amounts to state sanctioned segregation and apartheid based on religious belief. I am equally and probably more critical of the policies of the Catholic Church and the manner in which they bully third world countries by withholding aid, for example. I don't talk trash to all Catholics as a result. Just the ones who defend it... Such policies are not only racist, but detrimental to societies that are still trying to claw their way past what colonialism has done to them.

    So lets look at you. You defend policies that do amount to apartheid and racism that is deeply entrenched within the religion and supported by the State. I don't really give a shit about the religion itself. Any religion that supports and demands segregation and is supported by the state needs to be questioned. For example, lets look at Egypt. They are planning on revoking the citizenship of Egyptian men who are married to Israeli women. Such actions are deplorable, racist, bigoted and demands criticism and rebuke.

    I am just as critical of the Australian Government's treatment of refugees.. which is racist in the extreme and so vile, it makes me want to throw up. I would never, ever, defend it because of my loyalty to this country. And that is the issue with you, I think. You are so loyal to your country and your religion that you are willing to overlook policies within the religion itself and supported by the State to defend your country. Now you either agree with such policies or you do not and are just stupidly loyal and are willing to overlook racist policies.
     
  8. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Well...actually that's not so. You've bashed Catholicism to me more than a few times, which is fine, because there's a lot that needs to be corrected in it. But your tone has inevitably been that my stance on the social errors of the Church is insufficient, and that I must leave Catholicism. So...you kind of do trash talk Catholics, even if they don't defend its abberant policies. Or perhaps it was just me that you were attacking on that basis, using Catholicism as a lever.
     
  9. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    5,965
    Just to throw in a couple of quick points...

    1. The topic is utterly ridiculous and can't be answered by a simple yes or no. I'm sure there are many Israeli elite who think they're genetically superior to everyone else, and there are many Israeli elite who don't feel that way. What a stupid question to ask, really...
    2. As far as comparing Nazism to Israel, Judaism or Islam, it's totally absurd. However, this comparison reminded me of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, his well-documented enthusiastic alliance with Hitler, and the racial persecution of Jews he preached in line with Hitler's own beliefs. This wasn't just some guy looking to get rid of the British at whatever cost, as SAM wants everyone to think; not only was he the official religious leader of the Palestinian Muslims, but he took great pains to convince his followers that Nazism and Islam were completely compatible, and used this as his justification when recruiting Muslims for Hitler's armies, including entire SS divisions manned exclusively by Bosnian Muslims. SAM will tell you that initially he must have been some sort of British appointee chosen to help them lord over the masses, and later rebelled against his masters, but she won't tell you that in 1949, well after WW2, the Arab League appointed him as ruler of Egyptian-occupied Gaza, with the intention that he would rule over all of Israel/Palestine once the Arabs succeeded in exterminating the Jews there. I'd love to see SAM try to explain that one away and pin it on the West/Zionists.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2010
  10. Bells Staff Member

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    23,099
    I just think the point is that bigotry and racism and most importantly, the notion of superiority, exists in all quarters. Some may consider themselves to be part of their "elite" class or race (such as white supremacists).. But it does not apply to just Israelis or Jews. It happens in all societies and amongst all groups, religious or otherwise, to a certain extent. Sometimes it is state sanctioned and other times it is allowed to continue unchecked within the society.
     
  11. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    You won't find any disagreement from me there- to say otherwise would be to make the preposterous claim that Israelis or Jews in general are somehow morally perfect. I wouldn't buy that alternative for even a nanosecond. But the topic just says "the Israeli elite" as if it was some sort of single-minded monolith. It might as well ask "Do the Swedish elite think they're the master race?" BTW I haven't even checked who started the thread, so I don't mean anything personal to whoever it was that asked the question without thinking about it first.
     
  12. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    BTW I seriously recommend looking up Mufti Hajj al Amin on Wikipedia as a starting point. I'm not comfortable with a lot of Israel's policies, but I can't help but cringe at the number of accusations leveled at them by people who know next to nothing about the conflict neither as it stands today, nor as it was in the past. I feel most of those accusers are also in complete ignorance of their own ancestors' war crimes and the profits they enjoy today as a result, profits that far exceed anything the Jewish people have made from laying claim to a shitty patch of desert which happens to hold thousands of years of Jewish heritage.

    Edit: forgot to hyperlink my post, now I've put a link up to one of the relevant Wikipedia articles

    Double edit: I also forgot to mention that the Grand Mufti was Yasser Arafat's uncle. Not only was the Arab League fully behind the Grand Mufti's genocidal ambitions, but Yasser Arafat laid claim as his heir in pursuing the cause (does not mean I'm opposed to Palestinian moderates who want their own state).
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2010
  13. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,087
    That was most succinctly put.
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    23,099
    I also think that the criticism from within is also very enlightening and is needed. Otherwise the risks to the society as a whole grows and grows..
     
  15. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    3,538
    Would any of you kind people who voted the affirmative like to meet me face to face? The invitation is especially extended to nirakar
     
  16. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    3,383
    I have nothing against Jews. I do have something against Nazi type thinking. That's why I have something against you and probably the majority of the world's people.

    People in general are much too self-deluded and selfish for my tastes.

    I don't think loyalty was a virtue when it was Germans being loyal to the point of delusion to a delusional ego tripping cruel Nazi government and I don't think loyalty is a virtue when it is you being loyal to the point of delusionality to a cruel dishonest Israeli government.

    I am not going to give the descendants of holocaust survivors a pass when they engage in a milder version of the sort of thinking that allowed Hitler to perpetrate the holocaust.

    If you can't see the injustice done to the Palestinians something is wrong with you. If you can justify the injustice done to the Palestinians something is wrong with you.

    I agree with GeoffP or anybody else who wants to point out that Israel is not remotely one of the most oppressive states in the world but that does not make Israel a non-oppressive state.

    I am sick of all the lies and delusion and hate to the point that I am becoming a hater of liars and haters and I am not in the mood right now to cut people slack for being deluded and for what ever caused them to be deluded. I would rather dump shit on USA Today, Tony Blair and Joe Biden over their recent pro-Israel lies than dump shit on you, but they are not here.

    There are plenty of great Jewish people who don't get stupid out of blind loyalty. I am not accusing Jews of being any worse than any other population when it comes to these Nazi like attitudes of loyalty causing people to justify evil. But these pro Israel lies are part of American culture and therefore are more offensive to me than the lies in support of evil that are told in other parts of the world that are not part of American culture.

    Person number 4 on my list of which living people I love the most and am most loyal to happens to be Jewish. But you can insist that I must be ant-semitic if thats what you must do place my disgust for your propaganda in a safe non-threatening box.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2010
  17. Bells Staff Member

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    23,099
    What are you going to do? Beat them up?

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  18. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    Criticism is never a bad thing, as long as there's even a small factual basis to support it. But when you have guys like pjdude trying to completely delegitimize the Israeli state even though the UN legalized it, while trying to justify nations built on conquest and tyranny by dictators who didn't even recognize each others' conquests, as if this was somehow legitimate up until 1948... What sick and twisted bullshit this is. If Israel is an illegitimate state, the Arabs have already stolen land 4X as big and that's just from the Jews they booted out after 1948, and there's also the outstanding issue of Constantinople and other territories Turkey and its underlings stole from Europe, so let's see them stop yapping about it and pony up the goods, and I mean in the form of contiguous, secure and sovereign territories of both equal size AND value- territories where the inhabitants no longer have to feel threatened by such pigs.
     
  19. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    3,538
    Maybe. But I don't think anyone here actually has the courage to say the disgusting things they are outside of an internet forum.
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

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    23,099
    Don't know. Personally if I think you're an arse, I'd have no problem telling you to your face that I think you're an arse.

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  21. CheskiChips Banned Banned

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    Why don't Europeans stop acting like wuss bags? The name of this thread should really be:

    "Israelis don't care / Europeans do"
     
  22. Bells Staff Member

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    23,099
    Which is an even bigger kettle of fish. Israelis don't care and Europeans appear to care for the preservation of image.

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  23. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    Fantastic point, thanks for bringing it up. Europe has no moral credibility to go pointing the finger at anyone else as if they'd act any differently under the same circumstances. Look what they did to Serbia (whatever happened to all those Albanian mass graves?), and Serbia, however despotic it might have been, was no threat to the rest of Europe. European hypocrisy was a big problem in the Iraq War- countries like France and Russia were knee deep in business ties with Saddam Hussein, and kicking America in the balls is a great way to win votes, hence they squandered an opportunity to prevent the war, an opportunity which could have better been utilized by a country that actually cared about Iraqis.
     
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