Does God care about atheists

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,380
    ^^^
    I meant the money, how it is taken in & how it is spent. Sorry if I was not clear.

    I do not trust charities a bit. If I can give something, I give it to people who need it.

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  3. Michael 345 Bali tonight Valued Senior Member

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    6,526
    Charities collect money from donations (money given without restriction), money given for a particular cause (money spent on that cause), government funding (not really sure about restrictions but I suspect to cover utility stuff) However also some are exempt from utility costs and don't receive bills anyway
    Charities also hold fund raising events and sell 50cent Biro for $10 with the charity logo

    Scientology gets most of its (from the public) funds by quackery therapy in cleaning you out. From your body they clean out none existent conditions. From your wallet and assets real existing money and value

    Tom and the other squirrel nuts (I'm guessing) pay for publicity and perhaps bankrolling movies for profit sharing

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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    11,484
    I don't think I have lied, and take rather seriously, such accusations levelled at me.
    But as you accuse me of being a liar, I think the decent thing for you to do, is show where I have lied.

    Then you're not listening. From those answers you should be able a build a clear picture.
    If I taught you how to comprehend 1+1=2, you shouldn't need me to tell you what 2+1='s.

    Work it out for yourself.

    For now, I'll say yes.
    Why do you ask?

    Jan.
     
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  7. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Hypocrite!

    Religious freedom, where the object is not God? I agree.
    Proper religion is essential, and is free by it's very nature.

    Hypocrite!

    Jan
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,030
    You said you answered my questions but you had not.
    After I complained you answered them.
    I think you lied.
    If you think otherwise that is entirely up to you.
    Your opinion.... Why do you say I am not listening?
    If I dont get it that is not an indication that I am not listening so your view is incorrect.
    I dont agree.
    Yet another question you simply do not answer.
    Trying to work out what you think about stuff.
    I am human and subject to all sorts of issues.
    Is there such a thing as proper religion?
    So you say.
    Alex
     
  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,484
    You didn't ask me those questions, directly. So I was under no obligation to answer you. The questions seemed like the type of intellectual notions atheists discuss with atheists, about what the "soul" could be. Who am I to interrupt an atheist pow-wow?

    If you still have questions to ask me about what I've said thus far, then you're not listening. If you have question for yourself to answer, then ignore my "you're not listening" remark.

    Why don't you?

    Trust me.
    The answer is best coming from you.

    I've already told you everything you need to know at this stage. The rest you have to work out. That's how it goes.

    Of course there is.
    What a silly question.

    Based on what you say.

    Jan.
     
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,030
    Well perhaps you could have qualified your earlier potential lie that you had answered all my questions.
    So you acknowledge I asked questions that you did not answer for reasons you alone seem to deem reasonable yet the fact remains you said you answered all my questions othercthan your good self others would say that you indeed did lie.
    I will overlook that you did because I am sure Jan you probably did not have evil intent but I hope you understand that you must be careful in the future.
    The most reasonable explaination may be is that you are not the sckilled communicator that you believe yourself to be.
    I approach things differently.
    I understand different folk have different needs to ensure effective communication so I become concerned if they do not understand my point and I then do all I can to make sure I have explained a proposition such that I have communicated the notion such that they understand me clearly.
    Jan you have not explained things clearly for me, now you can call me dumb and throw a tizzy fit or you can be polite and address the flaw in the communication and perhaps use another approach to communicate your ideas.
    I wont answer that question right now so take it as my unsupported opinion and work with that.
    Is that the way you did it Jan... You have a question and so rather than ask the person who not only has the answer but seems to repeatedly suggest they know better on your approach you simply wait until an answer comes to you... Can you not see that method of seeking enlightenment is possibly highly flawed... You may end up with all sorts of made up notions in your head that have absolutely no basis in reality say like the idea that Santa is a real person or tbat the easter bunny is responsible for easter eggs in your garden... You could make a list of made up notions folk get into their head but all you have is stuff you have made up.
    Really but I told you I dont go for my made up stuff thats why I ask you for your made up stuff.
    Well the good thing is you are answering the questions even those you consider silly.
    Which religion is a proper reasonable and up to date in your opinion.
    And given what I have said you should say what you said..
    Alex
     
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,484
    I have answered the questions you put to me. I am not obligated to answer question that aren't.

    Yes. But you didn't specify that they were questions specifically for me to answer.
    But when you asked me specifically, I answered. Did I not?

    Of what?

    Reasonable, according to you.
    The best way to answer these questions, is to answer them for yourself, then proceed with the discussion from there.
    That is reasonable, according to me.

    Then state what isn't clear.

    IOW, you are evading. You do that a lot. Don't you?

    Yes. You have to make the effort Alex. It is not like the subject matters you are used to. It demands a different approach. If you believe the soul is a made up concept, you need to know why you believe it, and see if that reason is valid.
    If your reason is that there is no evidence, then ask yourself what is the evidence required to validate that reason.
    If you don't know what evidence would be required, then your belief is a false one.
    If your are the soul, then you need to understand how it is you could be, which has to be comprehended by yourself, as you are the subject matter.
    If you are not prepared to do that, then you inadvertently admit that you don't want to know. If you don't want to know, then why waste time with questions?

    Pure knowledge comes from within, not without. You have to make a real effort, and not rely on others to portray their information to cling to.
    Although you like using that word (enlightenment) a lot, I doubt that you have a good comprehension of what it is.
    My observation is based on your performance in this discussion. Remember, your the only one who has made a claim as to the non-existence of what is termed the "soul". This means you are required to back up the claim, if asked.

    Then don't make claims, and don't ask questions. You are admitting to wasting time.

    I've answered all your questions. But you have barely answered any of mine.

    Any education that teaches you how to love God, is proper religion.

    More silliness Alex?
    Are you afraid that if honestly contemplate this subject, you may be forced to accept things you deny?


    Jan.
     
  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,030
    I agree you have now but clearly when you said earlier that you had answered my questions you in fact had not. That fact is on record.
    You say that you in effect decided not to answer my questions based on your belief they were not serious or that you were not compelled to do so... Whatever but the fact is when you said that you answered all my questions that statement was not correct.
    Those facts are on record and excuses won't change those facts.
    Obviously but we are dealing with specific questions that were asked and your statement is irrelevant.
    Mmmm reading my post again I find it difficult to find you did not think that it was you specifically that the questions were directed to...
    Yes but even so you have said I need to ask myself which is an avoidance which I dont find helpful.
    Saying you answer when you do not.
    Is it not obvious?
    Sounds perfect if you are happy with building reality from made up stuff that pops into your head but I like to know what the other party in the converstaion is presenting before discussion.
    Would it be fair for me to imagine what your view is and without checking with you to then proceed on the basis that my imaginings of what I believe you may think, is in fact your very thoughts.
    I cant see that approach working to benefit anybody really.
    Yes but perhaps be objective in which case you will be obliged to hold a position opposite to your current position.
    Generally it is not clear why you apparently believe there is a soul when all you offer is a personal opinion that the body is separte from I... Such a statement shows something of your belief but I suggest your opinion is only mere opinion and it would be better to put firward something more than a loose opinion which really takes us no where.
    If you wish to believe that I evade issues generally that is your affair however I think you are wrong.
    All that I have read about the soul suggests it is made up and so far you have not said anything that has me thinking that the soul is anything more than superstition.
    There is no evidence in support for the soul at all and all reasonable views and history indicate the soul is made up.
    No no no.
    Your logic works in a strange way... Look it is up to the person seeking to include the soul in our reality to put up their case it is not your entitlement to question my lack of belief in anyway what so ever... What you believe is up to you but the fact that you hold a belief does not make it fact.. How is it you can not understand such?
    You can have an opinion but for the opinion to be taken seriously by others don't expect them to roll over because you decree that you just know you are correct.
    If this soul thing had any validity and it is the thread of human existence one would like to think you could offer something more than a belied based on a strange and totally unsupported notion.
    Speculation leading superstition blindfolded by the hand...
    I get curious as to why and how seemingly inteligent folk like you, and many others, can think if you make it up it is fact.
    In years gone by the stupid and uninformed made up superstitions were laughable and yet some superstition remains yet the difference today is we have the resources and education to be able to determine what is superstition.
    No.
    Yet in this informed world we get folk like you who still believe stuff that had origins in ignorance and darkness thousands of years ago...
    These days it should be clear to anyone what is superstition and what is not... I find it interesting that superstition will not die.. Unfortunately.
    As to wasting time I suggest it has only become this way for you because I dont get sidestracked by your skill to do so and focus on the annoying details, for you, that asks questions as to why we should not consider so much of this stuff as no more than nonsence.
    No this is where you are wrong.
    Education not making up stuff.
    The author if Relevations had no idea.. Made stuff up... He saw the stars as small specks and rather than being privileged with education about stars that they are indeed massive bodies as large and larger than our Sun... So he prophesied that these stars, these specks would fall upon the ground... That is so wrong it hurts but he relied on what he made up and so we can understand why he was so horribly wrong.. And this is the type if thinking you encourage Jan... It will not work. If you want to know about anything read the research and the text books but please dont make it up as you go along or most importantly do not accept for fact the nonsense others have made up....
    I saw a utube vid and this religious guy believes the Earth is flat... Why.. What about the science... His answer.. Oh science is what they teach in schools but if you want the truth you must read, his religious book, so he believes the world is flat.. And why wouldn't you.. I mean 2000 year plus uninformed made up superstitious text up against researched science and observation... Well I will take the modern up to date not made up science over his very old uninformed religious texye
    Yes but why say you need not answer questions not put to you?
    Yes you did answer questions in time.
    Yes you did.
    What I said earlier.
    I disagree else I could make up stuff that has no basis in reality.
    I ask and read that is best I think.
    What is not clear is how you proceed on made up stuff as if it were real.
    Only in your opinion.
    No.
    Not at all. Your method will not work.
    Does the soul exist if so show evidence.
    Why do you say that?
    You could have said that earlier.
    No.
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018

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