# Does Distance exist without time?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Quantum Quack, May 31, 2008.

1. ### Prince_JamesPlutarch (Mickey's Dog)Registered Senior Member

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Quantum Heraclitus:

No time. One moment immediatly follows the next with no interval between.

None. It is infinitesimal in duration. Accordignly, it cannot have a middle point. It is a quanta of time - there is no smaller.

C would be betwee A and B, so there would be one moment.

I would argue right off the bat that this is wrong: The point where there is no charge, either positive or negative, would be infinitely small. As such, one could indeed perfectly balance the iron rod of infinite smallness upon it, hypothetically speaking.

"Separating them with a zero" would be to not separate them at all. 1, 0, 2, 0, 3 is just extraneous.

"To say that nothing is between 1 and 2 is to say that there is no space between 1 and 2".

What makes 5 different from 4 and 6?

The very act of moving implies segmentation. Any movement can be subdivided ad infinitum. As such, it's basic, quanta/monad, must be infinitesimal.

To go back to the boiling kettles: You agreed, did you not, that one would boil quicker than the other. We said arbitrarily one would boil five minutes quicker than the other, correct? And these related to physical happenings: The water boiling. And you could ascribe a time to each, regardless of the fact that they took different times, yes?

I do not ascribe to the reality of anything less than 3 spatial dimensions. But theoretically speaking, yes.

The difference, however, would be that infinitesimally small planes could produce a substantial plane which is non-infinitesimal together. A zero-dimensional plane in the 3rd dimension (a two dimensional plane) could never do so.

One would be "1 + 1" the other would be "0 + 0".

I'll check the infinity one.

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3. ### Prince_JamesPlutarch (Mickey's Dog)Registered Senior Member

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Vkothii:

[qupte]So then intervals are "segments of" time. All we need is a definition of what that is, or how to make or produce a "segment of", this time stuff.

If we want to understand what its "practical application" might be.

See how I'm playing along here. But I can't say we've managed to dig any higher.[/quote]

A segment of time is a duration of time, composed of moments, or a moment itself. A moment is the quanta of time, infinitesimal in duration.

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5. ### VkothiiBannedBanned

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So, there's a "time quantum".
But what does "infinitesimal", or "duration" mean?

P.S. I'm going to need a new shovel at this rate.

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7. ### Prince_JamesPlutarch (Mickey's Dog)Registered Senior Member

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Vkothii:

Duration is to time as distance is to space.

Infinitesimal means "infinitely small". Or a non-zero number which is smaller than any natural number.

8. ### Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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Using a physical sustance:
So James How many of your segments [we are assuming material value] fit into a line drawn 1 inch long?

How many segments fit into 1 second?

9. ### Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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Say we have two infinitely sharp knives [ samurai swords if you like!

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]

and we place their sharp edges against each other.

as so ><
what separates the sharp edges. [ the infinite resolving of the sharpness is constructed using pi of course]

10. ### Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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Prince James:
I'll say this with out any doubt in my mind.
The problem with your approach to infinity is that you wish to make it finite. And this is simply not possible and is illogical.
Infinitey can not be limited or even technically speaking qualified as it defeats the notion of what infinitey is.

To stop reducing infinitey to a given value is to render infinitey obsolete and of no real use.
Infinitely small can never equal zero this is true but this is an imaginary paradox only.

A bit like saying that pi must eventually resolve it's digital extension.
As Infinitely small can never equal zero all this proves is the irrational use of language and ideas and not much else.
The only way to resolve the irrationality is to give infinitely small a value thus limiting the notion of infinity.

So I ask you ...

What limitations are you applying to the use of infinity?

How big for example is an infinitely big spherical object?
Is there a limit?

Last edited: Jun 13, 2008
11. ### Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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and,
If I could see an infinitely big volume of vacant space how long would it take to see it?
And if you say eternity I would question why I can see the space between our stars and the stars and us. [ no light to see remember ] instantaneously.

12. ### ReikuBannedBanned

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11,238
Here's the truth QQ, and then i won't answer in this thread no more.

As time evolves, there are objects that become more and more further away from each other, proving that they are invariant.

Secondly, relativity requires that time and space are one thing, so we find that not only does the expansion and evolution become complimentary, it is not only akin, but also invariant within relativity, which is quantum solid proof.

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Pardon!?

14. ### ReikuBannedBanned

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11,238
Well, space is time as time is space as spacetime.

If spacetime is expanding, then general relativity must predict distances between objects getting larger. The expansion of time, must also mean the evolution of time, which was caused by very low entropy at the beginning of time. This is why it is invariant, and why there is solid quantum proof that shows time and distance need each other, in a relativistic map and from a quantum physical outlook.

15. ### Prince_JamesPlutarch (Mickey's Dog)Registered Senior Member

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Quantum Heraclitus:

How many segments fit into 1 second?/quote]

Infinite in both.

Nothing, they are touching.

It is quite demanded by spatial and temporal segmentations.

None. I am only refering to the logical extension of its divisibility.

An infinite amount of time.

Because the speed of light is finite.

16. ### AlphaNumericFully ionizedRegistered Senior Member

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Relativity says nothing about quantum mechanics, since it's a seperate theory at it's foundations. So using relativity you aren't going to prove an entirely quantum result.

17. ### Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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which is exactly why when you take time out of the universe distance becomes zero. Relativity actually proves my point.

And why wont you answer in this thread no more?

18. ### Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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so you agree then that the light cones are touching and nothing is separating them?

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If so then how much time does space have?

Zero of course!
[ the light cones are after all a spacetime schematic]

Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
19. ### Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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So I repeat my question I asked before:
If I could see the infinite volume of space how long would it take to see it?
If space has zero time duration then....what has to be the answer?
therefore if space has no time it has no distance and zero space = infinite space
in this sense zero = infinity
compare:
infinity / infinity = infinity
zero / zero = zero
infinity / zero = infinity
zero / infinity = zero
and so on....

Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
20. ### AlphaNumericFully ionizedRegistered Senior Member

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6,697
No, a general postulate of classical physics proves your point, in that quantities should vary continuously. Setting t=0 gives you a 'spacial time-slice' of a system, it's configuration at t=0. This happens to have zero space-time volume in any theory, Newtonian or relativistic, because it's got volume 0*spacial volume = 0.

If you quantised space-time then this might not be true.
The fact you come up with a non-sense answer tells you you did something wrong.

You can only see things on your past light cone because the light from the event is reaching your eyes. Hence to see anything requires the photons having enough time to travel from the object to you. Your question is therefore meaningless. And your 'result' that 0=infinity is nonsense.

21. ### ReikuBannedBanned

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11,238
Pardon?

Is it not the general concensus that relativity and quantum mechanics will be found to be a single theory eventually??? Not only that, but by saying they are ''seperate'', isn't wrong, just again, i will explain, language limits our progression of understanding.

What about when in 1926 Dirac formulized a unififcation of relativity with the Fermion family, finding all sorts of clues which led to subspacetime virtual realms of spinning negative particles?

What you are essentially stating, is a fallacy of understanding the ultimate goal. Not only that but you don't seem to understand that relativity can in parts be integrated to explain quantum activity.

22. ### ReikuBannedBanned

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11,238
No.

∞/∞= either, zero, or renormalization, or a non-zero product which must be finite.

No. 0/∞=∞

You can't swap the rules, by division only.

I might be wrong about the latter part, but i think it's correct. I am positive about the former though.

23. ### Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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18,314
point taken and thanks for the correction...