# Does Chaos Theory prove a Mathematically Ordered Universe

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Aug 7, 2020.

1. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Well I don't know Tegmark and from the small sample of the sample of the scathing review I am unlikely to look any further in depth

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3. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Then stop referring to authority to debunk Tegmark.
Nothing you have shown me debunks Tegmark's mathematical universe. Talk about LEVELS does not have any bearing on the concept of a mathematical universe.

5. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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20,076
Logical conjunction

Definition

Truth table

Logic gate

Normal forms

Disjunctive

Conjunctive

Zhegalkin polynomial

Post's lattices
0-preserving yes
1-preserving yes
Monotone no
Affine no

Venn diagram of

is true if and only if

is true and

is true.

An operand of a conjunction is a conjunct.

7. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Blah blah blah

8. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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20,076
Ok then, if that's all it is to you......

Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
9. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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20,076
The beauty and elegance of mathematics is evident in the transformation of a triangle, a pointy object with only straight lines, into a flower, a landscape, a galaxy, ART.

A Sierpinski gasket can be generated by a fractal tree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal

How a set of straight lines results in a curve.

How a set of Ellipses form a Square

Amazing how these patterns self-assemble as a result of regular motion. This is how it happens in nature, regardless if there is an observer.

10. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Blah blah with pictures

11. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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20,076
This is a natural truth, regardless of observation.

Nature never heard of Fibonacci, yet it uses the "golden ratio" all throughout the universe since the beginning as it is an evolutionary deterministic beneficial design.

Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
12. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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20,076
I know, the abstract mathematical world is truly amazing. But then Mathematics is not a Conscious Intelligence or an Artificial Intelligence, but a Quasi-intelligent functional property of spacetime geometry.
Spacetime

Artist concept of Gravity Probe B orbiting the Earth to measure space-time, a four-dimensional description of the universe including height, width, length, and time.
.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
13. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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13,077
No no no no no no no..........

The Universe is stuff

Now we can LABEL stuff. Nice to LABEL stuff so we understand what stuff we are talking about
LABELLING stuff is NOT anthropomorphising stuff

Where you get into the anthropomorphising is when you give the Universe CHARACTERISTICS like QUASI-INTELLIGENT

***** The Universe*****

It's non living stuff,
it is bereft of life,
life has never graced its firmament
I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
A host, of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.
The Universe does not know of
WILLIAM WORDSWORTH the poet
IT KNOWS NOTHING
O death, where is thy sting?
O grave, where is thy victory? or
John Donne
IT KNOWS NOT OF LIFE AND ALSO
NOT OF DEATH

And it's not just sleepy

14. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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20,076
Nice poems.

But;
No one claims that the universe is a living thing!

Repeat;
No one claims that the universe is a Living thing!

Repeat;
No one claims that the universe is a Living thing!

Remember;
No one claims that the universe is a Living thing!

"Quasi Intelligent" does NOT mean a "Living Thing!

Remember;
No one claims that the universe is a Living thing!

If you think someone is claiming that the Universe is a Living thing, you are wrong.......

Love the poems.....

15. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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20,076
p.s. The universe IS a Dynamical system!

Dynamical System
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamical_system

"Dynamical system" does not mean "Living system", no, no, no, no, no, no.....

16. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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20,076
p.p.s. Dynamical systems

Bifurcation theory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifurcation_theory

and the curious contradiction of ;

Dimensionless physical constant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensionless_physical_constant

Note that BOTH interpretations and applications can be expressed as abstract measurable mathematically relational values! But how does it do that?
Because Human Mathematics are the human symbolic interpretation and representation of Dimensionless Universal Constants. That is why human mathematics are effective and suggest an accurate interpretation of at least some measurable fundamental dimensionless properties associated with the Spacetime.

E = Mc^2
t = 0 ->

T = 0
For many mathematical thinkers the scientific articulation of t = 0 has significant implications for understanding evolution in a permittive condition, particularly the idea of a self-organizing evolutionary process in a chaotic dynamical system from the very subtle to gross expression in Reality.

Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
17. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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13,077
Your claim it is quasi intelliegent

QUASI

seemingly; apparently but not really.

supposedly -seemingly - apparently
allegedlyr- reportedly (and a few others)

being: partly or almost

partly - partially - in part

Which quasi?

Dare I say us Minions are intelliegent, but when talking about the Universe as the Universe we normally mean "a whole lot of stuff other than us"

That whole lot of stuff other than us is not within a Planck distance of being intelliegent

While in the area - it is not a arbitrary made up system (maths) Universe either

pisssst - post 313 to long - skipped

Currently I have other distractions

18. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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20,076
Yes, but needs not be alive to act (behave) in a quasi-intelligent manner.

QUASI
seemingly; apparently but not really... ✓
supposedly -seemingly - apparently..... ✓
allegedly- reportedly (and a few others)... That would be religious interpretation...
being: partly or almost....................... ✓

partly - partially - in part..................... ✓

See above.
Yes, stuff behaving in a regular (measurable) order, "AS IF" it were intelligent. (The original basis for Theism)
But now we are talking about degrees of intelligent behaviors. i.e. (to name a few);
a) unconscious quasi (proto) intelligence: as found in bacteria (quorum sensing), slime-mold (maze solving)
b) subconscious homeostatic (control) intelligence: as found in flora (heliotropism), insects (hive mind), reptiles (heat sensing).
c) self-conscious intelligence (agency): higher order mammals, octopus, cuttlefish. (complex problem solving)
I agree, universal mathematics are not arbitrary, they are strictly relational. i.e. Constants (differential equations).
Mathematical constant

Basic mathematical constants
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_constant

The symbols used to identify Constants are arbitrary human inventions.
The Constants themselves are universal quasi-intelligent mathematical Functions.

IMO, a mathematical function is an autonomous quasi-intelligent function. It acts in a logical manner, but is not aware of this other than as a passive causal relationship (differential equations)

Schematic depiction of a function described metaphorically as a "machine" or "black box" that for each input yields a corresponding output
in human symbolic terms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_(mathematics)#

19. ### river

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17,307
But it has life with in it .

And life manipulates the fundamental elements of this Universe in order for Life to manifest .

Minerals , how many minerals are in the your body in order for it to function normally ?

Iron , potassium , boron

16 minerals are needed for the Human Body to function normally .

There are 16 essential minerals: calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sulfur, sodium, chloride, magnesium, iron, zinc, copper, manganese, iodine, and selenium, molybdenum, chromium, and fluoride. Minerals play important roles in maintaining blood pressure, fluid & electrolyte balance, and bone health; making new cells; delivering oxygen to cells; and contributing to normal muscle and nerve functioning. Minerals are widely distributed in foods, with specific minerals being found in certain foods. By eating a variety of nutrient-dense foods from the 5 food groups, you will have a mineral-rich diet.

Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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20. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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So does an aquarium...

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Highlighted

22. ### river

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True

But the Universe has life within it . That is the point .

Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
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23. ### river

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Agreed Write4U , but at the sametime Micheal345 is right .

Physics ; physical things , real physical things have 3D Inherent properties , such as a fundamental 3D shape , hence by its very Nature will have mathematical implications , its a given .

Mathematics in and of its self can not prove that ; 1+1=2 , the Physical can prove it easily ; .....think about this . For a bit . Write4U .

Last edited: Sep 27, 2020