# Does Chaos Theory prove a Mathematically Ordered Universe

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Aug 7, 2020.

1. ### river

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Disagree

Dimensionality is Fundamental to anything Physical Existing in the First place . And without any Physical Thing There is NO mathematics , None .

3. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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How do you know this?

Dimensions are Patterns
! All recurring patterns, abstract or concrete, are mathematical in essence.

Consider this; Time is a mathematical pattern that emerges with "duration" of anything.
It produces measurable incremental relational patterns of duration......

Last edited: Sep 13, 2020

5. ### river

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What are Dimensions the Pattern of ?

7. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Logic needs no knowledge. It is a self-ordering process in accordance to some simple regulatory imperatives. These imperatives are of a mathematical nature. Hence the self-formation of "patterns".

Without Logic, there is only Chaos.

8. ### river

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So your logic is based on nothing .

9. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
10. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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That's backwards.
Everything is based on Logic. Even Chaos contains logic. Else mathematical patterns could not form from chaos.

This is what prompted me to ask the OP question in the first place. The Universe started as CHAOS, but evidently patterns managed to emerge from the original chaos, which we have observed and decribed in Chaos Theory.

The observable self-ordering patterns in nature allowed humans to gain an understanding of "order" and "regularity" which are necessary for durable existence of all abstract objects and their continual expression as physically ordered patterns.

It allowed us to replace the undefinable machinations of Gods with the definable self-ordering properties (potentials) of relational values and their mathematical interactions.

11. ### river

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Logic is based on Knowledge , Write4U .

Chaos is a logic based on nothing .

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No....Logic is simply a correct way of reasoning, based on known knowledge and principals.
Chaos is a theory based on unpredictability and the reasoning of some order or pattern at the lowest levels, and has practical applications.

13. ### river

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So logic is based on reasoning , fine . What if the knowledge is flawed .

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Simply follow the scientific methodology, and refine the logical reasoning based on new evidence/knowledge.

15. ### river

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So we agree that Knowledge guides the logic .

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17. ### river

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What's the problem pad , in my post #252 .

18. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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No, Logic is a system of governing (guiding) principles, such as mathematical functions.
https://www.tutorialspoint.com/discrete_mathematics/boolean_expressions_functions.htm#

Chaos is a logic based on nothing .[/QUOTE] Almost. Chaos has no governing principles, any emerging logic is probabilistic ....

Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
19. ### river

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1+1=2 , physically no problem , the logic is obvious . Yet mathematics in and of its self can not prove that this is true ; despite the fact that in reality it is true .

Mathematics is a Tool to HELP understand the Universe . Not the authority or the fundamental principle on which the Universe is based .

Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
20. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Yes it can; Mathematical equations are the proofs of logical equivalences.
No, Mathematical logic is the essence of spacetime.

No, Logic emerges from Chaos.

The BB created an initial state of Chaos, from which the logical patterns of spacetime emerged as a result of causal cooling of the initial chaotic superheated condition.

21. ### river

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Why should space exist , mathematically ? Devoid of physicality .

22. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Chaos is the anthropomorphic name we give to the perfect organisation of stuff by physics because it cannot be in any other arrangement at that moment

23. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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No it didn't

It created the perfect organisation of stuff by physics because it could not be in any other arrangement at that moment

Maybe, perhaps, possibly physics were not the same as our current physics but still THEN physics did its THEN physics to perfection