Do you think Mormons are true Christians?

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by Alan McDougall, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Are the Moonies (i.e. Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity) Christian? Were the followers of Jim Jones (i.e. The People's Temple)Christians? Were the Gnostics Christian? It all boils down to how you want to define what it means to be Christian and there are a lot of varying definitions out there.
     
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  3. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    A christian is someone who worships christ. It is pretty easy. If they worship differently than you then that just means they are in a different sect of christianity, that's all. Different religious sects frequently believe that they alone are the "TRUE" (insert favorite religion) believers. Very common human nature kinda thing.:shrug:
     
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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Can they worship Christ and someone or something else too? And what does it mean to worship?
     
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  7. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    All Abrahamists (Jews, Christians, Muslims, Baha'i and Rastafarians) worship God.

    I think members of most Christian sects also worship the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost, and since I am not one of those people please don't ask me to explain what or who that is. But this is the essence of the controversy over the Mormons. God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost ("the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit," as it's usually rendered formally) comprise the Trinity. The Mormons either don't believe in the Trinity, or they don't worship it--again, I'm not a Christian so don't ask me to explain this either. Therefore, some (but by no means all) members of other denominations don't accept Mormons as "true" Christians.

    In this context, I think the dictionary definition is good enough: "To render religious reverence and homage to." Both "reverence" and "homage" basically mean "respect," but there's more to it since they both also imply that the respectee expects the respector to regard him as his superior.

    In slang, we say things like, "My girlfriend is the most fabulous woman on earth. I worship the ground she walks on." But that's just an exaggeration, implying that she is so fabulous that when she steps on a piece of sod it becomes holy.
     
  8. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    As it is presented in the New Testament, then yes.
     
  9. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    That definition won't do.
    Muslims give homage and reverence to Mohammed, but it is not worship
     
  10. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    The Muslims apply those kind of ideas to Christianity. They ask: Can somebody worship God and someone or something else too? And their answer is a clear and unequivocal 'No!'. So for Muslims, Christian worship of Christ alongside God is a clear and unacceptable reversion from monotheism to polytheism.

    One of the few things that I agree with the Muslims about is that the Christian trinity, the idea that the God-head is three-in-one, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
     
  11. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Of course not, Mohammed was a prophet and a man, they do worship God though.
     
  12. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, it's ok with me.

    Is english not your first language? Just google it.
     
  13. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Religions in general are not real big on the whole making sense thing.
     
  14. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    I'm inclined to agree. I think that I'd say that a Christian is someone whose religious practices and devotions center on Jesus somehow. I backed off the word 'worship' a little, since it's possible to imagine Jesus as a teacher of righteousness or something like that, without identifying him as God-in-the-flesh. If somebody's religious path consists of following that teacher, then I think that I'd still call that person a 'Christian', albeit of a non-traditional sort.

    The problem that I have with that one is that the New Testament was composed in large part of Paul's letters to the churches that he founded, plus some other writings recognized and used by the early Pauline circle in what is now Turkey. But Paul's churches and the style of Christianity that he more-or-less created weren't the only varieties of Christianity in the earliest years. Certainly at first, the Christian community was centered in Jerusalem, in a circle that appears to have revolved around Jesus' brother James. And we know that some sort of Christianity spread into Egypt during those first years, even if the NT doesn't talk about that at all. Which suggests to me that the evangelists in Egypt might have been rivals to Paul. The compilers of the NT might not have wanted to give this mysterious and perhaps rather different branch of earliest Christianity any credence. We do know that various forms of gnosticism emerged in Egypt some time later.
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Are you that cognitively impaired? If this subject were that simple, this would not be a matter for discussion. Religion is a matter of belief and not fact. That is why faith is required and that is why there are many beliefs.

    Further, I take it English isn’t your primary language because if it were and assuming you are not ignorant, you would know that there are multiple definitions for the word “worship”.

    “Worship is an act of religious devotion usually directed towards a deity. The word is derived from the Old English weorþscipe, meaning worship, honour shown to an object,[1] which has been etymologised as "worthiness or worth-ship"—to give, at its simplest, worth to something.[2]

    Evelyn Underhill (1946) defines worship thus: "The absolute acknowledgment of all that lies beyond us—the glory that fills heaven and earth. It is the response that conscious beings make to their Creator, to the Eternal Reality from which they came forth; to God, however they may think of Him or recognize Him, and whether He be realized through religion, through nature, through history, through science, art, or human life and character."[3] Worship asserts the reality of its object and defines its meaning by reference to it.[4]

    An act of worship may be performed individually, in an informal or formal group, or by a designated leader.” - Wikipedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worship

    Full Definition of WORSHIP
    1: chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
    2: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
    3: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
    4: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship

    Duh, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

    So I again ask for those who think that simply worshiping Christ is enough to be a Christian can Christians worship multiple deities or objects? If your answer is yes, I think you will find yourself at odds with most of the Christian world.
     
  16. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Hey, good point. Makes one wonder if Gnosticism was the 'truest' form of Christianity, but because Gnosticism is based on self-empowerment (through one's belief in God), it served as a threat to the government at the time, which wanted to use religion to control society.
     
  17. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: I tend to think that christianity[/I]came out of Egypt earlier than we've been led to believe. Egyptian symbolism preceded Christian symbolism, and the Catholic Church still uses many Egyptian symbols today. The theme of the Madonna and Child was taken from the Egyptian myth of Osiris. Isis is depicted holding a child. Also, sun worship came out of Egypt and influenced early Judaism. Christianity is nothing more than ancient sun worship. In christianity, the sun is replaced by the man-made idea of a creator/god. The setting sun, or dying demigod saviour, as I like to call it, was originally feared because of its link to the darkness of night, or evil. Darkness was ruled by the moon, and the moon ruled the female or so the patriarchy told us. The darkness of night was referred to as "Sin." "Moon" and "Sin" are synonymous. The night was the absence of the sun and, therefore, the absence of god.

    Then, there is the myth of Lucifer, who ruled the night. However, Lucifer was also known as the "Light Bringer" and "Morningstar." God (the sun) conquered Lucifer by bringing the morning light (or rising Sun), and the world was saved. This myth persists in many religions, not just christianity. Also, Lucifer is believed to be another name for the Planet Venus. Venus rises with the sun (symbolic of celestial rivalry). Lucifer's 'rebellion' against god was probably nothing more than shooting stars or meteor shower.

    There are many references in both the OT and NT that have celestial references. I just wanted to point out that christianity was an Egyptian concept before it became a Judaic one.
     
  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I think there is substantial basis for that assertion. I believe Jesus was a mystic and what we now know as Christianity is really an amalgamation of various schools of mysticism which coalesced around Constantine I and the formation of core Christianity as we now know it.

    Matthew 13

    11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
     
  19. arauca Banned Banned

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    Catholics worship Mary
     
  20. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, that's a common misconception about Catholics. They ask Mary to pray for them, as any believer would ask you to pray for him/her, if they were so inclined. They honor her, but don't worship her.
     
  21. KitemanSA Registered Senior Member

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    If we were perfect, how come we mucked it up?
     
  22. KitemanSA Registered Senior Member

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    FR: So: having free will makes us "imperfect."

    WEGS: sniffle, sob. yes.

    Me: So we weren't created perfect after all, and free will didn't muck us up.
     
  23. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I know. I was being facetious.

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    (The biggest contradiction of Genesis being if Adam and Eve were created by God to be "perfect", but yet God gave them (mankind) "free will," why would God "curse" all of mankind thereafter, if he knew Adam and Eve would muck things up?) Even if believers view this story as a metaphor, it fails to illustrate God as moral, himself. (the Christian concept of God, I'm referring to)
     

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