Do you really find it compelling that our existence came by chance and not intent?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Mind Over Matter, Mar 30, 2011.

  1. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

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  3. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Whose intent? And how did their existence come about?
     
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I think it's highly plausible. Although evolution isn't strictly speaking chance, our existence was a bit hit or miss. There is one small fossil that it said to contain the first rudiments of a backbone. If that animal had never been successful (and the vast majority of species are not) no vertebrate animals would exist.
     
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  7. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    What I find more peculiar is how come people can claim that our existence came by chance and not intent - and still remain functional in day-to-day life ...
     
  8. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

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    Post what you think happens without a cause. Not simply an unknown cause. But something shown to happen without a cause.
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    What does that have to do with it?
     
  10. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

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    It has to do with it. Otherwise, you don't deny that causality exists... just that everything has a cause.
     
  11. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    You've put your foot in it now, because you believe that God is causeless. If God, infinite in his complexity, can exist without a cause, then so can the universe.

    Although I am an atheist, I have no problem with seeing the universe itself as God. I wouldn't call it God, but could indeed describe it as the ultimate causeless reality (again, just as you would describe God).
     
  12. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    No it doesn't.
    Look at the thread title.
    Cause does not imply or require intent.
    There can be a cause without intent.
     
  13. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I think it's irrelevant to the question, but I can name one, the radioactive decay of any particular atom.
     
  14. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    Just to be a pedantic bastard for a minute, the decay is indeed part of a physical chain of cause and effect, it's just that it's impossible to figure out when it's going to decay.
     
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Then nothing causes that event at a specific point in time?
     
  16. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    I think it's a measurement problem more than anything else.
     
  17. livingin360 Registered Senior Member

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  18. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    livingin360, those are not uncaused events.

    I would suggest that both radioactive decay events and quantum virtual particles that cause the casimir effect are uncaused.
     
  19. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    ^ This...

    Although I used to refer to the universe as "god". I've had to quit as it just confuses people.
     
  20. livingin360 Registered Senior Member

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    the word God needs to be deleted from languages. Your pretty much saying universe = universe. Unless however you think the universe is a lifeform.
     
  21. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    There's more to it than that. The vast majority of people believe in the universe of course, but it takes on a different character when you think of it as God. Instead of conceiving of a greater and more fundamental external "something" that is the ultimate uncaused cause, you see the universe itself as being absolutely fundamental. In other words, the universe itself is elevated to the same ontological status that theists assign to God.
     
  22. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Is it the "not considering it by intent" that you struggle with or the "existence by chance"?
    What exactly does either have to do with being able to function day-to-day?
    Do you sincerely think that as soon as one claims existence is by chance that they become nihilistic, consider life pointless and thus should seek their inevitable non-existence as soon as possible? Do you think brain function should somehow cease?

    Actually I'm hoping that yours was just a throw-away comment with more intent behind the sentiment rather than the actual words used? :shrug:
     
  23. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Which is an interesting idea. However, there is insufficient data with which to persue the idea any further than pure speculation.
     

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