Do you as a man have a sexual need for other men

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by spuriousmonkey, Jan 31, 2006.

?

Do you as a man have a sexual need for other men

  1. Yes, all the time

    9 vote(s)
    9.7%
  2. Yes, sometimes

    9 vote(s)
    9.7%
  3. no, never

    67 vote(s)
    72.0%
  4. I'm not a man.

    8 vote(s)
    8.6%
  1. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    so it seems
    right down to the percentages too
    even the wording is similar
     
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  3. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    trying to resolve the above quote i have come to the conclusion that the poster is wishy washy
     
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  5. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Leopold and Spuriousmonkey.....I think this is the worst reaction you could give when someone opposes you.

    Comeon be fair when you discuss......winning is not so important --- that you get down to any level to prove yourself right or to avoid opposition.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2006
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  7. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    3,219
    To be honest, cross is way too professional/ scholarly in his wordings than I can ever hope to be.......it's not necessarily bad --- because I'm great when talking to laymen......but cross's remarks are much more specific, to the point and scholarly.

    And there is another wrong accusation as Cross has not agreed with or disagreed with my percentages.

    Remember, Cross is a heterosexual while I hate the heterosexual identity almost as bad as I hate the 'homosexual' identity.
     
  8. Cross Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    62
    First of all calling what I "spout" "garbage" is an uncalled for personal attack. If I didn't have a point you wouldn't be so upset.

    Secondly I know what a poll is for. This poll however presupposes people's honesty with themselves. It's in response to a thread contending that people are not honest on this issue.

    If what I think Buddha indicated were actually true, namely that heterosexuality is at least largely a social masquerade, then if this were true a poll like this will not work. If some predominant attitude of a society or societies is a cultural masquerade, then those who participate in it are convinced of it's reality, that it is not a sharade. So asking them to vote on it is useless.

    You said that a poll is intended to find out the distribution of views, as if what that distribution is in this case is something anyone would reasonable dispute. Buddhas contention was that something exists, a need. He's saying this need exists. The reason he's saying it is because he considers the majority of people to deny that it does.

    So it's a question of the existence or non-existence of this need, at least in a certain percentage of people.

    Now you are taking a poll on it to establish what? That a majority of people will deny they have any such need?

    You're not demonstrating his figure is flawed. You're only demonstrating that about the same amount of people deny they have this need Buddha says they have. His figure pertains, I believe, to something he doesn't think people admit to. I think that was why he started it as a debate!

    So the poll is irrelevant to the issue it's supposed to be in response to. How are you going to take a poll on how many people lie to themselves? If heterosexuality is a mask for someone, then it's one he's also convinved of in others, and then so too in himself. So asking him if it's a mask won't work. He's going to say "no- never".
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2006
  9. Cross Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    62
    Also most homosexual men will not consider heterosexuality weird and invalid, except for himself. What do you ,mean "if he's honest"? Why would a homosexual male lie about feeling a need for other men. Homosexual men lying about it isn't the issue. You mean a homosexual male who doesn't believe he's homosexual? In that case he's likely going to deny it in a poll since he denies it to himself.

    Of course homosexual males find heterosexuality distastful. That's just saying they are homosexual.

    Most homosexuals do find heterosexuality valid. They don't doubt it's valididty. It's a minority who doubt it's validity. It's the minority of that already minority group.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2006
  10. Cross Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    62
    Another personal attack. Is that all you got? I quess you can't see the similarity between a dispute over the belief in the existence or non-existence of god, and one over the existence or non-existence of anything else.

    Someone is saying something exists which other people say does not. Not just that, but they believe it doesn't. Just like the faithful of one brand, the faithful of another will have the same problem they do. You're basically taking a poll to ask alleged believers (alleged by buddha) if what they believe is true or not?

    Anyone could predict the outcome.
     
  11. Cross Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    62
    Buddha, again, thank you for your compliments. Thank you for pointing out too what I specifically said I wasn't taking a stand on here. One thing is though, I never said I was heterosexual.
     
  12. Cross Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    62
    If a person accepts that he is heterosexual, then he will answer this poll accordingly. Accepting the premise that one is hetersosexual, means accepting it in other words. What one accepts is real one accepts is real. So asking people if what they accept as real is real or not is pointless. The qualification "be honest, it's anonomous" can't be taken seriously.
     
  13. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    I can add to that.

    Sexual identities --- in fact like any other social identitiy are very effective in making people psychologically suppress and mould their needs and aspirations as per the demands of the identity.

    A socio-sexual identity is constructed right from one's childhood. It is a systematic process of mutilating, suppressing, ignoring, hiding, disguising, masquerading and hating ones sexual need for other men. It is also a systematic process of developing, exaggerating and pretending a sexual need for women.

    This process happens both at conscious and subcouscious level, but mostly at the latter.

    In a society without sexual identities --- controlling such needs totally is rather difficult and so men often indulge in it behind the scenes and on various pretexts.

    But a sexual identity provides a strong psychological basis (by giving a boundary and raising the alarm whenever a situation that may trigger one's sexual need arises) to deny one's sexual need for men. It creates a strict belief in one's identity which is assumed to be one's sexual feelings (especially because it is recognised by the society) --- even if it flies flat in the face of one's true sexual needs. The identity provides a framework for the person to be in constant struggle with one's true sexual feelings and also provides this fight from being visible to the work.

    But, it does demand that you don't recognise your sexual need, and only recognise your heterosexual mask --- even when no one is looking.

    If you do, the mask will be shattered and any security it provides to you will be gone.
     
  14. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    This can be compared to how a religious identity can shut you out from so many true emotions, needs or desires of yours. That is the function of social identities. To uphold ideologies which are in opposition to how nature has made you.
     
  15. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    What we are witnessing in this poll is:
    - a 'congregation' of the vested interest group on this poll --- and eventhough it may seem a big percentage, is nothing compared to the number of people who read this thread.

    - a sense of blind devotion to one's chosen (or believed to be chosen) 'social identity'. Albeit, when men 'choose' a heterosexual identity, they are actually choosing a 'straight', i.e. a masculine gender identity.
     
  16. john smith Tongue in cheek Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    833
    Well i voted on the 'no,never' one.

    Though i dont know why Buddha1 is so openly angry with EVERYONE who voted this choice.

    Buddha, why are you so angry? Just because the majority of people here voted in a way that makes your argument rather weak, does not neccassarily mean that everyone everywhere would vote in the same way, although that is what the poll indicates.

    :m:
     
  17. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    .....and don't forget that this 'group' is spread over the entire world.

    So it is nothing but a group of people who want to oppose talking about "95% of men having a sexual interest in men" (and this includes both homosexual and heterosexual identified men)......even if you take one such person from each country, you'll have your desired result.

    The majority of men, however don't want to participate in this poll.

    I mean these people are not even from one community.

    I remember, in one year, we worked with homosexuals. I with my female colleague would go to a 'gay' centre to talk with men. I remember, for those days my female partner started to feel as if the majority of men don't have a sexual interest in men.

    The point is, that if you congregate people of one particular mindset at one place, it is not indicative of the general trend.

    In this case this mindset is mostly a matter of faith rather than of one's true nature.
     
  18. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Did I say I am angry?

    I just want to make it clear that people --- inluding those who sought to muddy the issue, realise that it is not indicative of what goes on inside an average man's heart --- although in 'heterosexual' societies this is what would go in the minds/ heads (not hearts) of some heterosexual men.
     
  19. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,232
    Cross, get a ****ing grip man. You know and I know that most men are heterosexual. Bhudda1 does not believe that. This poll was a simple way of presenting some evidence that most men do indeed feel that way. The outcome was not a suprise to the roughly 90% of men who are heterosexual, or to the 10% who are homosexual. It may have been a surprise, or at least an unpleasant reminder to Bhudda1. That was its intent: to demonstrate to Bhudda1, that at least within the confines of such a straw poll, his estimates appeared to be way off line.
    What are you finding so difficult to understand about that?
    You seem like a nice guy, but your blinkered stance on this is making you look a bit of a prat.
     
  20. Cross Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    62
    Well, it misrepresents the meaning of ones emotions, false ideologies do. One lives with denied emotions through their misrepresentaion to mean something else.
     
  21. Cross Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    62
    If he's angry, it could be because this thread was made to evade the issue he rasied.
     
  22. Cross Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    62
    I doubt that the results do come as a surprise to him. I didn't read the entire thread of his this is a response to, but I believe he did mention he knew what the results would be, so it would be a waste of time. When he claimed a large percentage of men "have a sexual need for men", the reason he brought it up was because he thought there was a signifigant amount of denial about that. So I don't see what your poll is supposed to accomplish other than being evasive on the issue of that denial.

    I mean you might as well just asked "Are you heterosexual?" and taken a poll on that. To practically anyone who identifies as heterosexual, that question would answer the same thing. Or you could change item 3 from "no -never" to "I am heterosexual".

    His estimates were not for the percentage of people who consider themselves heterosexual. It was for something he believes is true of them in spite of it.

    Buddha, I hope I'm not putting any words in your mouth. This was my understanding.
     
  23. Cross Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    62
    It's entirely possible for human needs to exist which people don't understand or take the wrong way about themselves. I think that's what he's saying about a "need for other men".

    It's entirely possible to not know you need something. One can misinterpret one's needs as well, and attempt to satifsy them inappropriately, inapprropriately in respect to what it actually is, the genuine identity of the need..
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2006

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