Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

Well, we'd be better off blocking returning US citizens if your goal is reduction of crime. They are, as a group, far more violent than immigrants.

Or do you just hate Muslims?

Are you talking about Muslims or Republicans here? Hard to tell.

The same thing has been said about every other group of apples - Germans, Dutch, Italians, Irish and now Muslims. Fortunately we ignore the bigots and accept them anyway.

 

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We've heard this conflation before. Not only is the false equivalence wrong, it is also offensive. It certainly won't convince anyone to the right of you.
Islamic immigration is a fifth column in Britain, France, Sweden, and everywhere else where liberalism (small-l) has produced thriving cultures and economies, and liberal folks who aren't hateful of others.
Bringing in that fifth column will change the nature of these liberal places, and will radicalize formerly-liberal welcoming people.

Back to the topic at hand - if I ever make it to a Muslim country for a visit and everywhere there will be women wearing garbage bags, I won't judge. I will just accept. But here at home I will judge, very harshly.

 

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Facts-

None other than Ben Franklin called to ban the Dutch and German from immigrating. "W]hy should the Palatine Boors be suffered to swarm into our Settlements, and by herding together establish their Language and Manners to the Exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion."

The Irish were lazy drunks, more likely to rob you than work for you. "Irish need not apply." "They do not devote themselves to the manufacture of flax or wool, nor to the practice of any mechanical or mercantile act. Dedicated only to leisure and laziness, this is a truly barbarous people. They depend on animals for their livelihood and they live like animals."

The Italians were criminals. Everyone knew that; organized crime and all that. When nine Italians were lynched in New Orleans, none other than Teddy Roosevelt said that was "a rather good thing". Plus which they were typically Catholics, and Catholics were trying to undermine the government of the United States and place it under Papal rule. The KKK was instrumental in organizing to protest Italian immigration and keep the US pure.

All those things are historical fact. You may find them offensive; so be it.

Bringing in Germans, Jews, Irish, Italians etc has radically changed the nature of our liberal society here in the US, and that will continue no matter how many bigots oppose it.

You can judge all you like. Just don't interfere with their right to wear what they like - just as you demand people do not interfere with yours.

 

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There is always culture clash with immigration.
Those were good examples, but they speak more to the hypersensitivity of previous generations to anything foreign, vs. today's generation which has accumulated all of those former generations' lessons and experiences and has gone through accepting of the various Others for centuries.

With Muslims it's completely different as they perpetuate barbaric practices and mass murder, and by their mere frequency has normalized shit like the London attacks just the other day.
That is not normal.
No other group you cite has done this.

Once again - it is false and OFFENSIVE to equate the Muslim physical and cultural jihad, FGM and honor killings right here in the west to anything that previous generations of immigrants may have been up to. But rhetorically it is very easy to do ("let's ignore the jihad aspect").

 

The question was what I think about it, not what I'm going to do about it.
I'm civilized, and I know about the KKK, segregation, Japanese internment, German brownshirts, etc., so I WON'T do anything physical.
But I can convince others to vote, it's really the only recourse we have when we see our neighbourhoods infested with savages with barbaric cultural practices, some of which commit random murder for no reason, and quite a few of which support it silently or on forums.

The trajectory of this fifth column in our countries is something much worse than Trump (who is himself a symptom of peoples' hopelessness) - the radicalization of the electorate and their representative parties who will vote in increasingly extreme rightwing leadership, who step by step may take away personal freedoms - all why? Because of mass Muslim immigration. NONE of this happened with the other immigrant groups. But we do have endless wars, mass surveillance and total social strife because of Muslims. Unprecedented really. So take your platitudes and virtue signaling and stick them.

 

Exactly!

We are exhibiting exactly the same hypersensitivity. Those previous generations had decades of anecdotes to use to prove that all Italians were criminals, all Irish were lazy drunks etc.

No, it's not different at all. 99.99% of Muslim immigrants are decent law-abiding people, just as 99.99% of Irish, German, Italian etc immigrants were decent law-abiding people. You are mistaking anecdotes for facts.

A recent study by University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill looked at 3.3 million Muslims living in the US for an extended period of time. Of those, 46 were linked to violent extremism (i.e. tried to join ISIS or a similar group.) Of those, 24 actually did something violent or supported something violent (i.e. participated in the planning of an attack.) That's .0007%. And most of THEM were US-born. You are more likely to accidentally strangle yourself with your own shirt, or be shot and killed by a toddler with a gun, than to be put at risk by Muslim immigrants.

Really? Germans didn't kill tens of thousands of US soldiers and millions of Jews? Italians didn't bring organized crime to America, and spend years killing US soldiers?

But ignoring the Holocaust is just fine. Because that's different.

 

Nope - more backwards/racist populace back in the day vs. more progressive populace today.
Less experience integrating The Other back in the day vs. much more experience with many more different groups.

Nah, you're projecting your liberal values onto legit savages.

Meaningless. A study can say whatever you want it to say. I'm more interested in statistics of various criminal agencies, including domestic intelligence agencies that monitor forums among potential jihadis.
Also: when was the last time some Italian mobster from the 80s or [insert racial group] immigrant from [insert past time] has killed 50 homo's at a dance club for just being gay?

Your arguments are essentially lawyerism and projection of personal values.

 

So, all the men, women and children comprising the hundreds of thousands of families who just want to live in peace - should be considered terrorists, and penned within the borders of a country ravaged with war.

Pretty sure that's what they said in South African Apartheid.

Hey, they can live their lives - on the other side of the wall.

 

Apartheid (extreme form of segregation) is nothing at all to do with this.

 

Nope. Same same. We still see the backwards, racist percentage of the populace supporting KKK members, trying to ban certain immigrants because they're so evil and repeating the same tired isolationist claims.

Facts - not values - say otherwise.

But thanks for acknowledging that I am one of the "more progressive populace today." Good luck on escaping the backwards/racist trap you've fallen into.

No, it really can't - not if it's valid. That's a particularly right wing fallacy, that facts can just be manipulated to make them say whatever you want so nothing means anything.

Sure. Here's one interesting one:

=========
The number of physical assaults against Muslims in the United States reached 9/11-era levels last year, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of new hate crimes statistics from the FBI. There were 91 reported aggravated or simple assaults motivated by anti-Muslim bias in 2015, just two shy of the 93 reported in 2001.

Separately, the number of anti-Muslm intimidation crimes – defined as threatening bodily harm — also rose in 2015, with 120 reported to the FBI. Again, this was the most anti-Muslim intimidation crimes reported in any year since 2001, when there were 296.

Overall, the FBI reported 257 incidents of anti-Muslim hate crimes in 2015, a 67% increase from the previous year. These incidents included 301 individual crimes, 71% of which were crimes against people, as opposed to property. (Incidents can encompass more than one crime.) By contrast, crimes perpetrated against other religious groups more often involved property offenses, such as vandalism or theft. (Pew)
==========

So you are over three times more likely to be attacked BECAUSE you are a Muslim, than attacked BY a Muslim. People like you are the problem, rather than Muslims.

Uh - the guy who killed "50 homo's" (I'll use your language here) was a US citizen born in New York. Your "block all immigration from muslim countries" plan would have done exactly zero to prevent this. (In fact, replacing him with some immigrants would have been a very, very good idea.)

My arguments are based on facts; yours on irrational hate of a religion and a way of life. Fortunately, most Muslims are not like you.

 

They can use the bathrooms just like whites do - in their OWN bathrooms.
They can get education just like regular kids can - in their OWN schools.
They can do whatever they want - in their OWN neighborhoods, not upperclass Christian neighborhoods.
They can marry whoever they want - just make sure they are marrying their OWN women, not ours.

 

"Blocking all immigration" is not tantamount to segregation?

 

You have some twisted views of Americans if you think things are the same as they were in the 1930s-40s-50s in the deep south. When was the last time someone was lynched KKK style? What is the KKK membership these days anyway compared to olde times? How are their activities the same?

There are 2-3 times as many Muslims in the US as there were in 2001 so 91 aggravated simple assaults, if taken at face value, in 2015 vs. 93 in 2001 is actually 50-66% drop.
There are lies, damn lies, and then there's SJW crusaders with their "statistics"...

I already wrote about that. The savages of Islam and their progeny - do NOT belong here. He was a 1st-generation American. His parents should never have been allowed to immigrate, certainly not to get naturalized.

>irrational
>hate

I've outlined my rational quite thoroughly. You deal with emotions, misleading stats, projecting YOUR liberal values (which are good btw, they just prove you're a product of a GREAT culture that we should preserve jealously) etc...
I get that, I've seen people like you, you exist and are a reality and are a voting block, but you're not acquainted very well with reality.

 

Did you graduate highschool? Do you not know what segregation is? Difference between citizen and non citizen?

 

Perhaps I misunderstand your idea of 'blocking immigration'.
So, they can come here, they can mingle among us, it's just citizenship you object to?

 

Citizenship, just immigrating, or even just entering any country is a privilege, not a right. I hope you understand the difference.
I am against granting citizenship to Muslims in western countries, against them immigrating and settling here, and I would even go as far as to ban them entering our countries, with some very strict exceptions (work, study, going through extreme vetting)...

We don't need them with all the cultural toxic waste they bring, plus the terrorism. Even the seemingly integrated ones say dumb things that blame the actual westerners for ISIS ("you are marginalizing young Muslims so they get upset and leave for Syria").

Other immigration though, welcome, but only on a per-need basis. Ideally though, reduce immigration as much as possible for the next few decades to allow the immigrants that are already here to integrate.

The irony of the United States is that Muslim immigration EXPLODED (pardon the pun) after 9/11. Where are the racist-in-government when you need them? *sigh*

 

Things are not "the same." We are far more accepting of blacks, Germans, Jews etc as we were decades ago. We carry the same tendency towards xenophobia, however - people have just found a different target this time.

Almost gone. Today the racists belong to organizations like Stormfront, American Freedom Party, Aryan Nations and National Vanguard.

Ah, so you are for deporting US citizens as well? Not even Trump has reached those levels of bigotry and xenophobia.

You write about hate and jealousy, and call people savages and homos. I give you statistics from the FBI and you ignore them because they disagree with your political agenda.

Not really worried about people thinking you are the rational one here.[/QUOTE]

 

They have no political power, do not engage in violence, they're reduced to preaching to their little impotent choirs. They barely even have a media footprint. Not even close to the past.

Well you can't. Maybe you can reverse naturalized Muslim citizens' citizenship in extreme cases (e.g. conviction on terrorism charges).
I want western countries to stop granting NEW citizenships to Muslims, to not allow new ones to immigrate here, and try to limit their mere entry here as much as possible.
The existing ones, just gonna have to live with them here. I don't understand why the US has drastically increased Muslim immigration post-9/11. That is so counter intuitive and dumb I can't even...

Although the way things are going, there may be extreme/fascistic measures in France and UK if things don't change, and they probably won't.
America/Canada/Australia/NZ are immigrant "nations", but France and UK are *not*. There are indigenous French and British who are more nationalistic than you think.

This isn't altruistic but the point is valid: allowing the "good" ones to immigrate to the west, i.e. educated, rich, non-savage, actually drains those countries from any chance of becoming modern and civilized. So really, you want to help them by forcing them to keep their talented citizens so they put their own house in order.

 

The FBI stats prove that wrong. Perhaps you forgot the white supremacist who killed nine blacks in South Carolina last summer?

They have a huge media footprint.
========================
Study: 'Hate' groups explode on social media
Melanie Eversley , USA TODAY Published 6:58 p.m. ET Feb. 23, 2017

A study released this week shows that social media engagement by groups labeled as "hate" organizations has been booming in the last two to three years — and the largest shares of activity are focused on anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim sentiment.

The study titled "Hate on Social Media: A Look at Hate Groups and Their Twitter Presence" was conducted by SafeHome.org, an organization of home security experts that conducts research aimed at making communities safer. The study used data collected by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a non-profit based in Montgomery, Ala., that tracks hate groups nationwide.
. . . .
The sentiment in this engagement has largely been focused against immigrants and against Muslims, according to the report.
==============================

How about we put them in jail like we do for any US citizen convicted of terrorism? Since most of them are non-Muslim, that way we wouldn't need two separate justice systems.

Yep. And like the people who wanted to exclude Jews, Germans, Polish, Irish and Italian people, that will fail as well - and we will all be better off for it.

I know a few. I'll tell you about one.

Ali came here under an H1B visa. He got married here and just had his second child. He's working for a big San Diego tech company, writing the code that is probably running in your cellphone. He is now working on his citizenship. He initially moved here because of the opportunities he saw in the US, and decided to stay (and become a citizen) when he met the people here.

Yep. And black kids are "helped" by keeping them in schools with their own kind. That way no whites will beat them up, and the remaining schools aren't drained of the best and brightest!

 

Dylan Roof was a lone-wolf nut job with no affiliations with or memberships in any of those groups. Notwithstanding mentioning them in his manifesto or w/e.

More nitpicking of some bogus studies branding things SJW's don't like as racist or hateful, even Pepe the frog. Give me a break pussycat.

Funny how the terrorist attacks in the US correlate to the Muslim population increase.

I know and work with them, I don't need you to tell me anecdotal stories to prove your delusions and projections.

More conflation with bullshit.

You're just grabbing at straws, not addressing my points, citing your favourite bogus studies, telling me anecdotes, waste of time.
If you're venting then that level of "debate" is acceptable. But if you're trying to convince me you need to step up your game.