Do People Deserve To Be Poor?

How can you say that :L There were fat people back in the medevil ages as far as I'm aware, they didn't have anything to eat!

Fat is not based on food intake, it's based on other things.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

They didn't have anything to eat???????

So where do the calories come from that the body stores as fat? Air?

Baron Max

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

No, it isn't, Spider .....unless you FORCE people to give up some of their luxuries and wealth. And even you wouldn't want to force people to do something they didn't want, would you?

If everyone who could afford it gave $1 per day to feed the poor, no one on Earth would go hungry. But how many people do you think would do that?

Baron Max

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

With all of the charities in play, why is there hunger?

 

Baron max:

As an obese person myself I do have input. I am quite active in a day and probably eat less than the average person. Still I am 400 lbs. Now true part of that is muscle form splitting and stacking firewood and my other chores, but a great deal is fat.

Well the answer has recently been discovered. As any biologist will tell you we have all sorts of intestinal flora and fauna living inside of us. Two in particular are of interest. FOr simplicity sake we will call them A and B. A is very inefficent at digesting food and gets very few calories form anything ingested. B is hyper efficent, it breaks down food rapidly and throughly gaining far more from it than it counter part A. The upshot is people who have higher levels of A can eat a ton of food and never gain and ounce. Unfortunately people with higher levels of B can gain weight on a 1800 calorie maintenance diet.

Now before you judge some one remember some factors in life are just beyond a persons control. There are people drunk after one beer. There are people who gain weaight on a healthy diet. There are people who will never make enough money no matter what they do and there are people who are obscenely rich for no reason.

 

you MUST be joking.

 

If they did something to become poor and/or refuse (I said "refuse") to get themselves out of the situation, then I suppose one can argue they deserve it.

If they simply cannot get out of the situation without a helping hand, no matter how hard they genuinely wish to change their situation, then I say certainly not.

I would. Most likely I would give even more than that. But I think your figure is an overestimation. Maybe. I'll have to check on it.

 

Because the money doesn't go to the poor and the hungry, it goes to the people who work for the charities! Have you seen their beautiful, luxurious offices and buildings?

Baron Max

 

Yep, there you go ...it's a matter of self-control.

All the other bullshit you posted was just that ...bullshit ...excuses.

Baron Max

 

maybe 60% or so (transport included) 15% get's lost underway or where never mend to work or be eaten, a other 15% goes to bribes, the rest proberly reaches it's destination and is traded in with local militia for kalasnikovs

different people have different meanings on being rich and poor and the poor grow a lot of resentment to the other poor. I believe the greatest assest of humanity is it's ability to self destruct.
note greatest assest doesnt mean something good

 

I really do wish that all these misanthropic arguments people put up would start considering reality. I mean, anyone who thinks that laboring for an exploitative system that intentionally seeks to hurt you and demands your allegiance, participation, and labor 24/7 is freedom needs to stop and think for a moment. It's nice to pick on the poor or the thinkers and dreamers in order to make yourself feel better. That's always the way it is with the bully attitude.

Take, for instance, some of the posts about the fat guy. I would go so far as to theorize that people need the poor, the statistically deviant, the depressed, the abused, the injured and broken and maimed. It's a hell of a lot more fun to hate them than it is to aim that poison where it belongs.

There are some people in this world who simply need someone and something to hate. That person or entity doesn't actually have to offend those people. All one must do is simply exist, and there are a host of people out there willing to hate for any stupid reason they can find. Compassion and rational consideration actually take less energy, but it's just not as fun, is it?

And yes, "deserves" is a subjective term. For instance, my daughter's mother prefers to spend time in bars than with our child. Her outlook is that the first requirement of a happy child is a happy mother. Therefore, my daughter "deserves" her mother's behavior. It's not a bad thing. It's all done for love. At least, to hear her tell it.

 

Mod Hat: Get it together ....

Mod Hat - Get it together ....

You know, Max, I need you to get it together, man. If you really want to believe that everything you disagree with is bullshit and excuses, fine. But at some point, I really need you to flesh out that argument.

Really, take a look around: I let a lot of crap go on around here. There are, however, a few posters--and you are one of them--who contribute nothing but crap. And I let that go on. Hell, I've heard loads about these "infraction points", but I have no idea what they are; I haven't issued any, and I don't plan to until directly ordered to use the system.

But I really need you to put some substance to your posts. Perhaps if you were actually funny, the perpetual comedy routine wouldn't seem so disruptive. But you're not, and the two fingers you just gave in your post cross the line. If you want to debate the validity of the science, fine; it pertains to the ethical outcome so it can stay here in this discussion. But if your best answer is "Bullshit", save your time, save the electricity, and save us all the indignity of witnessing your performance.

You've had a great run of vapidity. And you're as welcome in EM&J as anyone else. But I need substance in your posts. I'm running out of excuses for not dealing with you in my capacity as a moderator.

I very much believe in free speech. Please, please cease your relentless attempt to make that belief impractical. Free speech does not mean that your speech has no value. I don't care if it's a nickel or a ha'penny. Contribute something substantial please.

Of course, let me know if that's too much to ask; I'm certain I can work out a more satisfactory arrangement.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Yeah, that's too much to ask. Do whatever you think you must ...but don't just threaten and bluster ...if you think I'm doing something wrong according to the rules, then deal with it. Don't be a weak, fuckin' wimp!

Baron Max

 

There are reasons for the imbalance in society, unequal sharing of resources, unequal rights, unequal opportunity and lack of imput and respect of the individual. It is easy to tell what is wrong, look at history! Money is human energy, money is not what is important it is the energy and the proper use of it for the good of all the people. It is said that without the shift towards equal sharing in america there will be a civil war, as the times when brother fought against brother, I hope not.

 

But some people work harder than others ...how can you call it equal justice to give some lazy bastard exactly what the hard worker gets? Is there no shared incentive in your ideal world? Or is it that we can all lie around on our ass and get all that we want equally?

Interesting. I think it'll be just the opposite ...taking from the hard workers to give to lazy bastards is what's gonna' cause civil war. Just think, ...the lazy bastards won't want to start a war, they're too fuckin' lazy.

But when some people, mainly idealistic liberals, start trying to take money from the workers to give to the lazy bastards, they're gonna' start gettin' damned tired of it. That might lead to civil war ...not the way you suggest.

Baron Max

 

being poor or not gives different taste to life, more appreciation to the resources and life in general for the poor and more appreciation to the truth and power for the not poor. we should experience it all to feel the worl fully.

 

What if we don't wan to? What if we'd just rather read about it in books rather than actually experience poverty and starvation?

By the way, would you hold to the same thinking if it was about killing people? Raping women? Stealing? Drug usage? Drunkeness? Nuclear bombings? Suicide bombings?

Baron Max

 

we choose the path: the killers, the suicide bombers, tyrants....teachers, engineers, scientists

 

I find it interesting how those who are hostile toward the poor depend on the "lazy bastards" argument. Certainly there are lazy bastards out there. But what about the greedy bastards who take more than their share? Who buy influence and corrupt society, and cause more people to be poor? As long as we insist on weeping over the "lazy bastards", we'll never actually address solutions to poverty and its accompaniment difficulties.

The hard workers? Take one of your vaunted "hard workers", say a CEO who runs a clothing manufacturer. Now put him to work for a week or two in one of the sweatshops he pretends he doesn't finance. Since he's a "hard worker", and the poor are "lazy bastards", the CEO should do just fine. In fact, he should be able to outperform the "lazy bastards".

Even better, make him leave his wealth behind for that period, and ask him to subsist on the wages those "lazy bastards" get while working twelve to sixteen hour shifts. The lazy bastard is the guy at the top who thinks he deserves more because he has the power to bleed it out of others. Most poor, and even those not among the working poor, aren't "lazy bastards".

Relying on such hatred as the "lazy bastards" myth is just a way for the "hard workers" to be lazy. They want lots of money, and they think that by going to an office and inventing all sorts of silly rituals to follow they're working hard. And when those "hard workers" at the top do their jobs wrong, it's the "lazy bastards" busting their asses that lose their jobs.

Over the years, I've heard some outrageous things:

- A single mother who won't work sixty to eighty hours a week outside the home for insufficient wages is "lazy". (U.S. politics)
- The Reconstruction-era blacks who built stable businesses only to have them taken away by racist laws were "lazy". (Myth of Southern Reconstruction)
- The tribal slaves carrying their European masters around the Caribbean on their backs were "lazy". (Myth of Columbus, Colonization, &c.)
- People suffering disabilities are lazy. (Baron Max)​

If the world were really so simple, Baron Max, if success and stability were simply matters of will and desire, if everything was a matter of simple choice, rich people would long be extinct.

We live in a society that needs poor people. Western society could not survive as it does without the support of a massive poverty class. We need them. If decency and justice aren't convincing arguments, then think of it as an investment. The "hard-working" rich invest money and resources in the "lazy bastards" who are poor, else the rich would have a hard time being rich. Without the "lazy" poor, the "hard-working" rich might have to carry their own luggage to the private jet before flying off to a "business meeting" complete with coke and hookers; without the "lazy" poor, the "hard-working" rich might have to get out of the sauna and clean their own toilets. Without the "lazy" poor, the "hard-working" rich might have to go fight their own wars, take care of their own children.

As long as we imagine the poor to be "lazy bastards", as long as pretend the "lazy bastards" straw man is the vital issue, we cannot make a serious attempt to deal with poverty and the social challenges associated with it.

If so many of the poor are lazy bastards, why do the rich hire them? Why should the rich not trim their own hedges, change their own tires, raise their own children?

 

In the case of the person I was responding to, I was taking into account the "reality" of his own boasts to the effect that he is fully capable of making a living, but has chosen to "screw the system" by wrangling himself a monthly gov't. check.
Can't say as I recall the specifics, if they were ever made plain, but it seems to me to be pretty hypocritical to yammer on about the alleged injustices of the system, yet somehow see past them to help yourself to the handouts it makes possible.
"Picking on him" doesn't really make me feel any better, but not knowing who he is or where he lives, I can't do what would - namely reporting his lazy ass to an agency which might investigate his case and throw him the hell off the dole !