Do electrons absorb and emit photons?

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Mike Honcho, Aug 19, 2008.

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Do electrons absorb, conserve and emit photons?

Poll closed Aug 29, 2008.
  1. Yes

    100.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Neither

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    I would like to state that electrons emit absorb and emit photons.
    Several rather well versed posters have been debating with me that this is not the case.
    I would like to hear the general consensus.
     
  2. Vern Registered Senior Member

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    695
    Mike; lets be careful that it is not just semantics we're wrestling over. The point I was trying to make was that any time a charge or a magnetic force moves so that they break lines of electric or magnetic force (that just means going from less to more or visa versa) photons are created out of what ever force caused the change. The photons are potential mass. When they encounter some welcoming piece of mass, they join it, becoming part of it.

    That is a simplistic way of looking at it but it is essentially what happens.
     
  3. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    We are in agreement on this. Energy is converted. Energy is conserved. Likewise with spectroscopes.
    thanks for the input.:)
     
  4. Vkothii Banned Banned

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    3,674
    Yes, that is what electrons do. Sandy beaches absorb ocean waves too, but they don't emit them, or store them, unless say an earthquake occurs.

    Electrons are not things that store quanta of energy - they absorb energy and emit it later. Sometimes only part of a photon is absorbed, or an emitted photon is a sum of vibrational modes (IR). An absorbed photon is a nonexistent photon (it's dead Jim).
    It's all quantised, you see.
     
  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Administrator

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    26,781
    What do you mean by "conserve" in the poll question?
     
  6. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    170
    I mean that the energy that is the photon when absorbed by an electron is conserved.
    All that is the photon can be conserved in what would at that point be a more energized electron cloud. I am uncertain if photons could be partially absorbed (but it is my understanding that they are not. Electrons can only exist in quantized states) but that is irrelevant to my point. Under the right circumstances ALL of the photon could be absorbed. This photon would then be temporarily CONSERVED within the electron.
    The energized electron then emits a photon to return to its natural state.
    The emitted photon (of course) does not have to be the exact same photon that was absorbed.
    As such I contend that electrons absorb, conserve and then emit photons.
     
  7. Vkothii Banned Banned

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    3,674
    But what all that describes is how energy conservation means that electrons (being charged particles) can create and destroy photons.
    An electron's momentum isn't a photon; a photon is a change in momentum of a charged particle. Electrons don't store photons any more than protons or quarks do. Which is: not.
     
  8. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Moderator

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    6,697
    No, Ben and I denied that electrons contain photons. We specifically said they emit and absorb them.

    The fact you didn't understand and now you need to lie shows you aren't interested in a 'debate' on this.
     
  9. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    999
    Hmm.... Interesting


    DwayneD.L.Rabon
     
  10. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    1,334
    Mr Pleasant strikes again. Don't you have some poison pen letters to write or something?
     
  11. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Moderator

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    Don't you have emails to write to physicists telling them you have all the answers but refuse to tell them any of them. And then you get no reply.

    I wonder why...

    The thread starter is like you, unable to answer direct questions and has to resort to lying in order to try to 'win' a discussion. His opening post is a lie and I pointed it out. Just like I point out when you lie. Which is generally when you post.
     
  12. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    8,966
    Mike---

    I don't think anyone has argued that electrons don't absorb and emit photons.

    This thread is ridiculous.
     
  13. Steve100 O͓͍̯̬̯̙͈̟̥̳̩͒̆̿ͬ̑̀̓̿͋ͬ ̙̳ͅ ̫̪̳͔O Valued Senior Member

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    Don't know about "conserving photons".
     
  14. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    8,966
    He means conserving energy. I hope. Otherwise he's a bigger idiot that I initially gave him credit for.

    Photons are not conserved.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  15. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    170
    Actually you, AlphaNumeric, Vtkothii and Vern all posted arguments specifically contradicting this my only position- ad nauseum. I presented this clearly and repeatedly. In fairness, you only argued that electrons do not store photons. If the single word No can be called an arguement. I'll not post links becuase you and I both know the truth and I am not concerned with being popular within this community.

    But,

    Thank you. Your apology is accepted.
    There is hope for one who can say he is wrong and accept the truth.
    Most would believe the lie to promote they are right.
     
  16. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    170
    You are so much FUN!
    Instead of honestly considering and rebutting your post, I'll just employ your methods and use you for a punching bag.

    Let me translate every derogatory, mocking post you've ever dribbled out of the shit hole you call a brain:

    I am AlphaNumeric. I am very insecure. You intimidate me. By degrading you, I feel I am upgrading me. I'm not fit and am very unattractive. I resent this so I lash out. This alienates the people around me. Now I am lonely.
    I throw myself into my studies obsessively, its all I have. This is my stronghold. Here I am better than you.
    Whats that? Someone dare have an idea I don't support?
    And without a PhD?
    CRUCIFY HIM!!!!!
    Plus my penis is really more of a weiner than a full out cock.
     
  17. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Super Moderator

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    13,046
    I'm not going to claim to be an authority because I'm pretty sketchy in some areas, however from what I was led to believe it's the shift in an electron's orbit that causes a photon to be emitted. It is possible that the wave function's that make up an atom can "absorb" photons, the reason I believe this is that photon's themselves are not just a packet of energy but of distorted space, if the packet becomes stretched from say a field, then the photon ceases to exist as a packet and just becomes background radiation. (I'm guessing Zero-point.)

    This is what I posed to be the reason for a photon's zero-rest mass, because it ceases to exist through the method implied to slow it down. It becomes absorb in the spacetime fabric.
     
  18. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,966
    This is correct. This is why spectroscopy is a precision science---you can measure the energies of electrons emitted (or absorbed) from electrons surrounding an atom. The photon hits the electron and excites it to a higher energy level---the photon is absorbed. This means that (yes) the photon is gone, nonexistant, completely used up in the excitation process.

    Later, the electron can decay into a lower state and emit a photon. Energy is conserved. In order to go from a higher (less stable) energy level to a lower (more stable) energy level, the electron must emit a photon with exactly the energy of the difference in levels.

    Now, Mike, please quote me a place where I, or AlphaNumeric said that electrons cannot absorb and emit photons.

    And I see you've quit talking about physics, which is why this thread was cesspooled preemptively.
     
  19. Mike Honcho Shut up and calculate Registered Senior Member

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    170
    Remember the above Ben?
    Since everyone agrees that electrons emit and absorb (I concede you never said otherwise); Lets focus the debate:
    All you ever really argued is that at no time does an electron "contain" a photon.
    I contend that between the absorbtion of one photon and the emission of another, a photon is in everyway completely conserved within an electron cloud.
    Without getting into a linguistics debate I argue that the electron does at this point "contain " a photon.
    This IS contrary to what you said.

    Regarding your moving this thread, it was not premature. Its very purpose was to remove the dribble from your Scicontest. I am actually interested in its serious outcome.
    Regarding AlphaNumeric, he will never get a serious consideration from me. Unlike you, his ONLY purpose is strife. So I'll give it to him in spades.
    Your degradations are secondary to your point. That I can respect.
     
  20. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    8,966
    You're quoting you genius, not me.
     
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